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As I posted earlier, I met with my SP today, and I will just say the experience was frustrating. As I was discussing some of my concerns with him, he kept cutting me off and asking me what my motivation was for asking these things. There was the clear implication that I was doing something wrong in asking these questions. He was previously much more understanding than he was today. He also told me, among other things, that I hadn’t received a spiritual confirmation because I didn’t really want to know, that me asking these things was the adversary trying to destroy my family, and that I don’t understand the difference between spiritual communication and emotional experiences (can someone explain that one for me?) So, I’m frustrated. But I did tell him exactly where I stand and that it was up to him if he wanted to release me or not. I told him I would do the calling as best as I could as I saw fit, but I wouldn’t pretend to believe when I don’t or that I would testify to others to try and strengthen them. Just that I would try to be a voice of love and understanding for others and that I would be willing to help my fellow brethren in any concrete way I can.
I got the impression that he doesn’t want to release me, which is fine with me, for now. I feel much better knowing that he knows where my current beliefs are so I don’t feel as hippocritical anymore. But my frustration was with how he responded – I guess I shouldn’t be surprised, but I am.
That’s one of the main reasons people don’t tell leaders about their beliefs (or lack thereof). Most of us here have had experiences similar to this where we have been made to feel wrong about questioning (or even worse “doubting”) even though some of our top leaders have affirmed that questioning and alternative beliefs are quite OK as long as we’re not directly opposing church leaders, trying to convert others, or trying to gain a following. It is of course all of Satan and the answers are more prayer, more scripture study (especially the BoM), more church – when most of us have also figured out those things are not the answer and are not magic. I’m sorry you had a less than satisfying experience. Chalk it up having learned something and move on. He is unlikely to change. On the positive side, he didn’t release you – but I bet he’s keeping an eye on you. Don’t be surprised if you see more high councilors or other stake people attending your meetings.
Yes – lesson learned. He didn’t ask at all about what I’ve been doing or studying or praying – just assumed I’m not trying hard enough or don’t really want an answer. The implication was that if I TRULY wanted an answer I would get one. Just feeling frustrated and done tonight. Life goes on…
For me, I do everything I can to avoid “explaining” the reasons for why I believe what I do. Your personal journey and relationship with God is yours alone. Arguing religious beliefs is silly. They would not convince me, and I would not take away anyone else’s faith even if I could. As for your SP, try not to be too hard on him. He believes in the Church with all his heart and soul. He means well.
dande48 wrote:
For me, I do everything I can to avoid “explaining” the reasons for why I believe what I do. Your personal journey and relationship with God is yours alone. Arguing religions beliefs is silly. They would not convince me, and I would not take away anyone else’s faith even if I could.As for your SP, try not to be too hard on him. He believes in the Church with all his heart and soul. He means well.
This is good advice. Thanks. I’m relatively new into my faith transition and feel like I’ve had a sort of awakening. Sometimes that feels exciting and new, despite how I know those around me in the church will react to it. It’s almost like I feel like sharing with others why my views are changing, but you’re right, it’s a personal thing, and I also don’t want to take away other’s faith, especially when it does so much good for them. Every person needs to find what works for him or her, and what helps give life meaning, and that journey is immensely personal, especially when you start to venture outside the carefully constructed confines of what the Church officially teaches into the wild wilderness where literally anything is possible.
Read the following post. It might help. http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3864&hilit=thestrals DoubtingTom wrote:
dande48 wrote:
…Every person needs to find what works for him or her, and what helps give life meaning, and that journey is immensely personal, especially when you start to venture outside the carefully constructed confines of what the Church officially teaches into the wild wilderness where literally anything is possible.For many, myself included, I went from fear, to curiosity, to excited (with a
bitof trepidation). I also realized that I need to stop looking back so much and having regrets and just look forward. Some people react with offence when asked hard questions about the faith. Your SP appears to be one of those people. He missed the opportunity to strengthen your resolve. Instead, I trust he only weakened it. Poor guy, he just doesn’t get it. But it underscores the need to keep doubts close to the vest. Not to share them with Stake or Priesthood leaders. I was able to ordain my son this week in spite of being way unorthodox inside, like you are. Open up too much, and the priesthood leaders go from “loving Shepherds” to “watchman in Israel” — denying you privileges and things you may want to do. I no long consider them advocates of me personally — they are ambivalent creatures capable of doing good and massive harm, simultaneously — to be carefully managed with vague hope of a return to full activity.
In fairness to him, he may have had a tough week/day/hour. He may even go home and completely forget what you discussed. Everyone of us (humans not just FC people) get wrapped up in our own lives. You have no idea what he personally is carrying around. They don’t get paid, they don’t get assistance or help from the upper group, they are more stuck in the middle than we are. Most likely he is a believer and practitioner, but everyone thinks he has super powers and great knowledge. He works to be that because he wants to serve well. More than letting this go – PIVOT. If you feel you have a new found love of life in service, build a quorum around service. Drag in Just Serve or just set stuff up and get doing it. Be Jesus in Action people. Humanity lives by what they see. If you have a hot quorum of service related guys, who cares what your beliefs are.
You are in a lucky position. Be kind to him. Smile, look him in the eye, shake his hand. Thank him for letting you unwind (don’t discuss anymore). Move on. Be a friend.
Not to be argumentative, but SPs do hold keys, and in fact bestow keys on EQPs. You are right. I get my Bishop and SP mixed up. Thanks DJ. mom3 wrote:
In fairness to him, he may have had a tough week/day/hour. He may even go home and completely forget what you discussed. Everyone of us (humans not just FC people) get wrapped up in our own lives.As much as I believe being compassionate to people is a good move, I find these kinds of mind conditioners hollow when you are hurting inside. We can justify just about any insensitive act with speculation about whether the person had a bad day.
I do think it’s good to move past the SP’s frustrating attitude, but also to recognize it is typical of some members. Not something we can change, and the best we can do is to try to be less judgmental and more broad-minded than the people who lead us sometimes.
Your SP only has his perspective to work with. Sometimes I’ll do this exercise where I reword what someone says. You haven’t received a spiritual confirmation because you don’t really want to know.
[tab]becomes[/tab]
If I haven’t received a spiritual confirmation it would be because I didn’t really want to know.Asking questions is the adversary trying to destroy you and your family.
[tab]becomes[/tab]
The adversary would try to destroy me and my family by getting me to ask questions about my faith.You don’t understand the difference between spiritual communication and emotional experiences.
[tab]becomes[/tab]
Maybe I don’t understand the difference between spiritual communication and emotional experiences.People project. When the SP gives his reasons behind why things happen to people and his counsel he’s really only speaking to what his reasons and counsel would be if he were in a similar predicament.
DoubtingTom wrote:…that I don’t understand the difference between spiritual communication and emotional experiences (can someone explain that one for me?)
I’ll take a stab. If you arrived at the same conclusion I arrived at then that was spiritual communication. If you arrived at a different conclusion it was the adversary, or human emotion, or something… but certainly not spiritual communication.
:angel: One other thing to consider. Sometimes people take things as a personal affront when others disagree with them.
nibbler wrote:
DoubtingTom wrote:…that I don’t understand the difference between spiritual communication and emotional experiences (can someone explain that one for me?)
I’ll take a stab. If you arrived at the same conclusion I arrived at then that was spiritual communication. If you arrived at a different conclusion it was the adversary, or human emotion, or something… but certainly not spiritual communication.
:angel: I think it’s a very prevalent attitude among the orthodox believers in the church that if they prayed about it and got a spiritual confirmation that the BoM is true then it works exactly the same for everyone. I have heard that many times, sometimes in not so many words, from the pulpit and from missionaries. It’d be great of it worked that way, but it doesn’t. However, if one has never experienced something else happening or if someone else gets a different answer, they can’t comprehend it – it’s counterintuitive to them.
Quote:One other thing to consider. Sometimes people take things as a personal affront when others disagree with them.
I have found this to be very common in the church. Any deviation from the “normal” point of view seems to be taken as a personal attack.
I can’t tell the difference between emotional and spirituality. I feel emotion when I see secular movies, touching stories that have nothing to do with the church. It’s hard to know. What matters to me is if it motivates me to action. Even then it doesn’t mean the idea was inspired, bit just mean the idea or impression was meaningful enough to me to motivate me to to do something.
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