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This is a separate, more focused discussion, than a similar thread on Hallstrom’s talk from GC. I hope people see that. Hallstrom said you can be active in the Church, but not active in the Gospel. I would like to ask a similar question:
“Can you be fully active in the gospel, but not active in the Church?”
SilentDawning wrote:
“Can you be fully active in the gospel, but not active in the Church?”I think there are extreme cases where you can, such as if you live in a remote location somewhere there is no church, and you can live the gospel on your own without church activity, or health issues prevent a person from being active in church…so there are some situations I think prove it can be done.
However, I think for the majority of us, truly understanding the gospel means living it, serving others, and sharing things with others that make it difficult to be fully active in the gospel and not be active in the church. I think that is what the church is for, it helps us live the gospel. It gives us a garden area to see if we really know how to make something grow through labor.
SD, I also had a reaction. I was very saddened that some can’t realize the complexities that can cause falling away. I really believe until we get away from the judging as we’re trying to rescue, we won’t be successful. Trying to strip away the reasons why people become less active while they have and maybe are still going through an anguishing situation is just wrong. I have been friends with many less active people over the years. Their reasons are varied. Some situations broke my heart, so I could see why it broke theirs. Sister Okazaki once said in one of her books something to the point of some people don’t even feel safe in our churches and of course they wouldn’t be attending if they don’t feel safe.
Until we get to the point where we are reaching with real charity, we won’t truly be helping anyone. With all that said, I do think Elder Hallstrom is trying.
Oh, now I need to answer your question. My husband recently said he is tired of people and wants to go live in a remote location. We had a discussion about that. I would never wish to do that. I like being around people and I grow that way. We do need each other and the Church provides a ready made environment with LOTS of growing experiences. While you might be fully active in the gospel without the Church, what about all the people you might be able to personally touch and help? The more of us there are that are sensitive to the complexities of church, the better it is for everyone, as far as I am concerned.
Yes absolutely and I think millions of people throughout the world are. Yes, if we’re talking about the LDS Church – absolutely. That was stated very directly in one of the talks from the first session on Saturday, when it was said that other peoples’ lives can be both inspiring and challenging to us as LDS members. No, imo, if we’re talking about a society of like-minded believers. The Gospel is not a life of hermitude.
I think so. I had a set of Grandparents who were some of the best christians I’ve ever met. Their ability to care for others, to lend a hand, to keep an eye out, etc was remarkable. In all the years I knew them they never set foot in the church. Though both baptised they had seasons of attendance, but it never stuck. But gospel values they never lost. I think there are more out there than we know. I live in an incredibly remote area. I’ve actually heard that we are the furthest away from any large cities than anyone in the U.S., but I never looked into it. The ward I belong to is a fourty minute drive. The people I live by do not all attend LDS church, although we are all like minded. We all believe in the BoM and the gospel. As far as I’m concerned, some of these people live the gospel more fully than actual church members. Now, being associated with several different polygamous groups, who believe that “polygamy” is the “fulness of the gospel” and the church claiming “the church” has the “fulness of the gospel” I made a thorough study a while back and discovered they are both wrong. We read in Doctrine and Covenants 42:12: “And again, the elders, priests and teachers of this church shall teach the principles of my gospel, which are in the Bible and the Book of Mormon, in the which is the fulness of the gospel.”
So the fullness of the gospel is contained in the BoM! Which is why it’s such an important book. Also there is a difference between the preparatory gospel-administered by the Aaronic priesthood and the fulness of the gospel-administered by the melchezidek priesthood.
It is my opinion that 2Nephi 31 pretty well sums up the fulness of the gospel. The BoM only repeats this same message over and over again. It basically says…have faith in Jesus Christ, repent, be baptized, receive the baptism of the HG, and THEN in the next chapter it says AFTER you have received the HG then Christ Himself will give you instructions, which in my opinion are different for everyone. If you observe to do whatever He commands you then you will eventually make your calling and election sure/receive the 2nd comforter. That is the gospel right there. All centered in Christ. So, ya, the gospel can absolutely be lived outside the church.
Ok, but let’s push this further. Let’s say you don’t live in a remote area. You live within a reasonable distance of a chapel. Can you be living the gospel without being active at the Ward level, without paying tithing, or even having a calling? It depends on whose definition of the gospel you use. If you use the traditional idea the church and gospel are the same then no. But if you see the gospel as Christs teachings and obeying them, then yes. My grandparents lived close to multiple wards, had hometeachers that visited them, my grandfather helped build the temple in their area because they believed that worship was important. I didn’t see them day in and day out but when we were with them they always had blessings on the food and listened to our nightly prayers when we were children. So to me they were fully active in the gospel but not active in the church. Again not everyone would agree with my definition but I think you can.
Naturally, I’m close to rejecting the traditional church definition. I think Hofferston’s comment that “the Church is not the gospel” opens the door a bit to surmise that they are two different things. Same with Poelman’s talk a while ago. The church does provide opportunities to the live the pure gospel of Jesus Christ of forgiveness, service to others, but it certainly is not the only forum in which this can happen in real life. And I think there are tendencies for local leaders, and even the people at the top to elevate the church to the same status as the pure principles of the gospel when in fact, church interests are often secondary to those principles.
Ultimately, the goal is character. I spent the weekend working with two really good Christians from non-Mormon churches. I realized just how phenomenal people can be, and how life in general has afforded them the opportnity to use those principles to perfect their character — outside of our organization.
And by the way, I question if they’ve ever done a lick of home teaching,
Again, I believe “the Gospel” can’t be an individual pursuit. I believe “faith in the Lord, Jesus Christ” includes an acceptance of his primary message. which is completely wrapped up in “the social Gospel”. So, yes, you can be fully active in the Gospel without attending church – but you can’t do it witohut being involved with God’s chiildren. Also, just to pull out my parser’s pen again, you can be baptized and feel the Holy Ghost compelling you to not attend church but rather serve people. I don’t think that actually happens a whole lot, but I also think that might be because most people need a church community as part of their service-learning and giving experience. Iow, I don’t think there is one true implementation of the Gospel of Jesus Christ that is universally correct and proper for everyone.
When you fully accept the gospel and actively embrace it, don’t you want to be active in some cause, including the Church with all of its bumps and warts and imperfections? It seems you want to try to make the world a better place, including helping those around you, in your ward and in the community outside your ward…IOW, your neighbors. Example 1: So, perhaps a person doesn’t go to church every week, perhaps they drink coffee, perhaps they don’t pay tithing, but they absolutely serve and love and teach others as much as they can…they stay connected serving in whatever way they can, maybe that is home teaching, or maybe it is some other way. They attend church some weeks and add to the discussions in the class. They seek out others who may need help, and talk to them.
Example 2: Perhaps a person is at peace with reading spiritual teachings of many religions, feels OK with God, but doesn’t want anything to do with the church anymore. They don’t send their letter of resignation, but they pretty much don’t attend any meetings, and when asked to go home teaching or help setup chairs for meetings, they politely decline. They focus on their family, and don’t have much interaction outside of their home.
What do you think, SD? Are both active in the gospel? Are neither active at church?
I think the answer would be “is the person growing in their Christlike character?”. If the answer is yes, they are both active in the gospel. According to the Church definition of active at Church, the non-attender is not active in the Church, but the person who comes occasionally is. That would be my answer.
Quote:Going to church doesn’t make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.
That quote is what I thought of during the talk. I think it works if we are active or not in the church. One can be active in the gospel but not in the church…I have seen it many times. I have been helped by barely active or inactive members far more than I have by fully active members. I tend to think all of fringe dwellers hang out together and tend to appreciate the real doctrine of the gospel far more than the culture of the church.
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