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mom3 wrote:
The no keeping journal info. came from Elder Mattson. I can’t remember if it was in his MormonStories Podcast or the New York times article, but he was the one that said they have been asked not to keep a journal. I found it ironic since President Hinckley’s biography was written largely from his journals.
It was in the interview with MoStories. I think it was in part 2 of 3.
On Own Now wrote:Unknown wrote:Would the FP change with a new president? I’m trying to recall a counselor that has been released and called to serve in the 12 again. It seems likely that Ucktdorf will be in the FP for a long time.
It can happen. The last time was in ’85 when ETB became the President, and he moved Marion G Romney back to the 12. However that was clearly a health issue. MGR was basically incapacitated at the time. In fact, though he was the senior member of the Q12, Howard W Hunter was made the Acting President of the Q12.A prior interesting time, though not a release from the FP, occurred when David O McKay became the President. The FP had been GAS, JReuben Clark 1st Counselor, DOM 2nd Counselor. But when DOM became president, he called Stephen L Richards as 1st Counselor and demoted JRC to 2nd counselor.
Technically, the FP is dissolved upon the death of the President, so only if they are called again, do they keep that calling. For example, when BY died, there were three counselors in the FP, one of whom was his son John W Young. When BY died, the FP was dissolved and the Q12 ruled the Church. Three years later, when John Taylor became the president, he called one new counselor (George Q Cannon), kept one from BY days (Joseph F Smith) and didn’t recall two of them, even though they were still living (John W Young and Dan Wells).
It would be surprising if DFU were removed from the FP, but it is possible.
Hugh B. Brown (another reformer) was released from the 1stP when McKay died and replaced by Joseph Fielding Smith. A shame as Brown was a voice for moderate Mormonism. He was leading the charge to restore priesthood to blacks (possibly why he was booted back to the ranks).
It’s a very long way off, but I’d love an Asian apostle. Asian culture loooves nuance and metaphorical interpretation of history.
Foreign apostles would obviously have to speak good English. Uchtdorf’s English
is impeccable – though slightly accented – could we say the same for
many other overseas leaders outside the Anglophonie?
The church leadership is a management board. Now I dig that when it comes to the day to day running of the church, but not religious instruction. I don’t really bother with GC these days – there are many good talks, but most are stolid and uninspiring, and delivered in an out of date fashion.
If BKP becomes leader of the church, I’m going inactive!
Seeing as they all get the best medical care available it is resonable able to assume that the average age will keep getting older. It seems at some point that to get to be president you are going to have to be 90 or older. Unless you get something like a Bednar gap where he is much younger than those ahead of him. It is bad now but could get worse as time goes on having a near comatose prophet all the time.
Cadence wrote:It is bad now but could get worse as time goes on having a near comatose prophet all the time.
We have been there before, and quite recently, actually.
In a way, the years when Elder Hinckley was the de facto leader of the Church were the beginning of the change we all are appreciating right now. Just saying.
For those who have been talking about Packer, I heard a funny story about him on the Mormon Matters podcast today (on an old episode). D. Jeff Burton had mentioned in his HPG that he didn’t have a strong testimony like the rest of them. The new HPG leader later approached him and quoted the CHI (I think) as saying that a person couldn’t teach in HPG without a solid testimony. So Burton wrote to Packer asking if he had to have a strong testimony to be part of the church. Packer replied saying he certainly didn’t need to. I have probably mangled the story quite a bit, but the gist of it was that Pres. Packer isn’t nearly as hardline as some may think.
There was another story about an unnamed apostle who wrote to Burton and thanked him for the great work he was doing to help doubting people remain in the church and then said that he regularly read Burton’s column in Sunstone.
Bednar is my top worry for the future of the church. President of BYUI, numerous letter of the law talks and devotionals. The man is dripping in a mile long list of do’s a and don’ts. To me it seems he comes from a place of constant fear. He is ALWAYS about outward signs of devotion, little about the joy of the attonment or Jesus Christs love for us and our fellow men lds or not. In overall tone he is the opposite of Uchtdorf. He does not seem like the type to “find the one lost sheep”and bring him back to the fold. More likely he reported said sheep for breaking the honor code, sat in on his discipline council and voted for the wayward sheep to be out lest it contaminate other sheep. Just my views though of course, but I worry much less about Packer than Bednar. Hopefully I’m mistaken though and Bednar grows into a less fearful type of leader. Do we really want a church president who has made a talk approving hitting gay people and has a bee in his bonnet about masturbation? That and Packer’s constant “obey us” admonitions… If you are addressing me Sambee…NO not at all. I just believe that Packer will pass on before he can become President. Bednar, could be president for decade(s). That is a very long time. A very long time. Dax wrote:If you are addressing me Sambee…NO not at all. I just believe that Packer will pass on before he can become President. Bednar, could be president for decade(s). That is a very long time. A very long time.
I have a wide range of friend and bosses of the years. But if there is one thing I run as far and quickly as I can from is black and white thinkers and insist in their ways. They scare the bejesus out if me, never felt the spirit that way, only pain and depression and suffering.
Dax wrote:Bednar is my top worry for the future of the church. President of BYUI, numerous letter of the law talks and devotionals. The man is dripping in a mile long list of do’s a and don’ts. To me it seems he comes from a place of constant fear. He is ALWAYS about outward signs of devotion, little about the joy of the attonment or Jesus Christs love for us and our fellow men lds or not. In overall tone he is the opposite of Uchtdorf. He does not seem like the type to “find the one lost sheep”and bring him back to the fold. More likely he reported said sheep for breaking the honor code, sat in on his discipline council and voted for the wayward sheep to be out lest it contaminate other sheep. Just my views though of course, but I worry much less about Packer than Bednar. Hopefully I’m mistaken though and Bednar grows into a less fearful type of leader.
Dax, that’s how I feel as well. My hope is that he mellows over time. I actually don’t worry about BKP anymore, because I think in his age and situation, if he did because president, I think it would be a non-event. Just like hawkgrrrl point out, many thought of ETB in a similar way, but his presidency was really quite moderate. Don’t be prideful. Pretty good advice. We’ll see with Elder Bednar.I wouldn’t like to comment on how authoritarian Bednar would be, but he seems businesslike to me. I suspect organizational management would be his main priority rather than doctrine. Africa is the main growth area, Asia generally a no go.
On Own Now wrote:Dax wrote:Bednar is my top worry for the future of the church. President of BYUI, numerous letter of the law talks and devotionals. The man is dripping in a mile long list of do’s a and don’ts. To me it seems he comes from a place of constant fear. He is ALWAYS about outward signs of devotion, little about the joy of the attonment or Jesus Christs love for us and our fellow men lds or not. In overall tone he is the opposite of Uchtdorf. He does not seem like the type to “find the one lost sheep”and bring him back to the fold. More likely he reported said sheep for breaking the honor code, sat in on his discipline council and voted for the wayward sheep to be out lest it contaminate other sheep. Just my views though of course, but I worry much less about Packer than Bednar. Hopefully I’m mistaken though and Bednar grows into a less fearful type of leader.
Dax, that’s how I feel as well. My hope is that he mellows over time. I actually don’t worry about BKP anymore, because I think in his age and situation, if he did because president, I think it would be a non-event. Just like hawkgrrrl point out, many thought of ETB in a similar way, but his presidency was really quite moderate. Don’t be prideful. Pretty good advice. We’ll see with Elder Bednar.It seemed that people were worried ETB would super political. I worry about Elder Bednar from every “other” angle. I don’t get the sense that he even
haspolitics. As in, he doesn’t seem passionate about the world at large. Quote:Bednar is my top worry for the future of the church. President of BYUI, numerous letter of the law talks and devotionals. The man is dripping in a mile long list of do’s a and don’ts. To me it seems he comes from a place of constant fear. He is ALWAYS about outward signs of devotion, little about the joy of the attonment or Jesus Christs love for us and our fellow men lds or not. In overall tone he is the opposite of Uchtdorf. He does not seem like the type to “find the one lost sheep”and bring him back to the fold. More likely he reported said sheep for breaking the honor code, sat in on his discipline council and voted for the wayward sheep to be out lest it contaminate other sheep. Just my views though of course, but I worry much less about Packer than Bednar. Hopefully I’m mistaken though and Bednar grows into a less fearful type of leader.
Delivery is not personality. Elder Bednar is not a dynamic speaker and his topics may be straightforward but you really can’t get a sense of a person through their formal conference talks. Something about that context that seems to stiffen nearly every speaker (Pres. Uchtdorf is one notable exception). I have always thought of Elder Ballard as a rather stern, no-nonsense sort of person. But I had the opportunity to listen to him speak in a much smaller less formal context and found him warm, amusing, and rather grandfatherly. Now, I don’t know Elder Bednar personally (someone who does is welcome to chime in) but unless you do, I doubt you can really judge what sort of person he is and what sort of leader he will be solely on the basis of his talks.
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