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As far as what does it mean to answer the question about wearing garments day and night, there’s an interesting take on that in a thread on
http://www.ldssdc.org .GB – thanks for the link – but this one just goes to the website. Which forum thread are you specifically talking about? I browsed around a bit – is there any one topic about garments, or is it all about “nudist?”
Regarding the previous link: Wow, do I live a very sheltered life!!!!!
If you go to the “Can Mormons be Nudists” there’s a thread on garments on the first page and on the “Cultural Issues” forum there’s a thread on the second page. Allen Palmer on http://www.ldssdc.info has some stuff posted on garments as well. I tried to copy and paste addresses but my open reply would disappear.I think this is one of those cola vs. coffee questions. I’m not endowed and niether is DW. From what I’ve heard you wear them the same as underwear. You don’t shower in them do you? I don’t shower in my underwear, nor swim, nor when engaged in intimate marital activities. So maybe I’m not the best person to answer this I can only go by examples given. I think the garment is a symbolic piece of clothing I don’t think it should or was meant to be so litteral. GB – found it. Thanks. I thought this was an interesting post
Quote:1) Obligations (all endowed members must comply)
* Wear it throughout their lives
* Don’t defile it
2) Formal Guidelines (provided as a reference for all members)
* Treat it with respect
* Keep it private
* Don’t alter it
3) Less-than Formal Guidelines (provided as a reference for Church leaders)
* Worn night and day
* Only remove it if it’s impractical to keep it on during an activity
* Put it back on ASAP after the activity is over
* Proper disposition
4) Informal Guidance (anything else a Church leader, temple worker, parent, friend, Sunday School teacher, etc. says)
* Not to touch the floor
* Not to be wadded up
* Can only be removed for showers, sports, swimming, and sex
I also like the thought that
Quote:…The TG is not sacred. It is just a piece of clothing. The covenants one makes in the temple ARE sacred, and the garment is symbolic and helps one remember those covenants…
FenixDown wrote:From what I’ve heard you wear them the same as underwear.
Yes. Like that. They are just underwear, worn like normal under clothing (although not as fashionable perhaps). Most (near all) endowed members take them off and wear other clothing for activities that are appropriate (sports, bathing, intimacy, swimming, etc.)
Now there have been people, and probably still are (although very rare), that take the protection idea and the commitment metaphor way too literal (IMO). I have heard stories of people that would actually take their garments half off, wash half their body, then switch, so as to never remove them. But I think that was even considered extreme by the most conservative and literal believers. I have never personally met someone like that, that I know of at least.
Thanks Brian. I thought as much. My family went through the temple about 18 years ago. What I was always taught was that they were just like underwear but that some people went to extremes in keeping them on. I personally think TGs look comfortable I always wear boxer briefs and tees anyway so if/when DW and I go to the temple it won’t be a big deal as far as comfort goes. It has always surprised me how when people leave the church they say how great it is to not wear TGs as if that longing to wear a speedo can now be fullfilled. As far as the spiritual aspect I take kind of a middle view to it. It’s kind of like the US flag, it does symbolize something and should be treated with respect but what’s truely importiant is the meaning behind it. I think you should wear TGs in a respectful manner but I don’t agree with some of the historically earlier extremes people go to wear them. One question I have is there a tank/sleeveless style top? Not that you would wear it exposed but it does get hot in the summer and certain places of the world. Related to this question is my own experience with garments. For years they have bothered me because I have short legs. If I wear perfectly modest shorts that go down to below my knee, the garments always hang out below the hem of my shorts when I sit down. One person told me I looked like MelchizeDORK wth them hanging down that way. I’ve considered getting them altered even though I know it’s not allowed –the world has been created for men who are 5’8″ tall, and I’m a lot shorter. Of course, I haven’t done it, but I’m beginning to feel it would not be a violation of covenants because it’s not a TR question about whether the garments are altered.
Plus, is it really becoming of a priesthood holder to go around with garments hanging below his shorts? Wouldnt it be better to make them fit properly?
I know — you say — wear longer shorts, or long pants. Unfortunately, I live in a really hot and humid climate and I’m not willing to do that year round….
SD, make your own. It’s not forbidden and happened all the time in the earlier days – before Distribution Centers existed and most people forgot how to sew. I can’t speak for him, but I would suggest you send Brian a Private Message and ask about more details, if you are interested.
What do they mean by “wadding”? You can’t fold them up? Also defilement, are we talking moral or literal here.
The floor thing isn’t always practical either.
The floor thing is traditional and not doctrinal. It’s the attitude that counts, imo – not the specifics. For example, if you have short legs and can’t get garments that fit, make your own or pin them up – or sew them up shorter in a way that leaves the marks intact and visible. If the military can use colored garments (given the symbolism of white), regular members can adapt them carefully and thoughtfully without messing up the symbolism. To me, that’s totally a non-issue – even if it would give many members strokes. After all, as long as the symbols are intact, you’re only altering cloth – and that cloth can be used as dish rags without the symbols. (That feels too weird to me, but it’s perfectly acceptable by the published standards of the Church.)
Religion is the art of making meaning, which is an abstract, hard-wired instinct. Humans are compelled by this instinctual urge to create meaning out of life, and to use symbols as tools in this spiritual building project. Garments are a physical symbol, and they also have symbols on them. What are we allowed to do with them? What are we allowed to do while wearing them, or not wearing them? How are we allowed to alter them, or are we even allowed to alter them? All these questions tell us about
our self. The answers only lead to the next questions. If you are asking the LDS church, your family, or even this group here how you are permitted to work the symbols, and how it is done correctly (the true correct way), that will tell you something. And it will eventually lead to new questions.
If you are trying to figure out on your own, or asking God (whatever you see that being), based on “the facts” and logic, the true and correct way to work the symbols, that will tell you something. And it will eventually lead to new questions.
If you are asking the Garment symbols to tell you a story, trying to play with the symbols, and you aren’t really all that concerned about what is permitted or forbidden (not even what God thinks about it), that will tell you something. And it will eventually lead to new questions.
There really isn’t a correct answer. Only good questions. We build the meaning with the tools we have available.
Old-Timer wrote:To me, that’s totally a non-issue – even if it would give many members strokes.
I agree Ray, and I try to remind myself it is not supposed to be symbols that are all about fear.As Brian said, the symbolism should be to help provide meaning to us. That’s where there is power through faith.
FenixDown wrote:It has always surprised me how when people leave the church they say how great it is to not wear TGs as if that longing to wear a speedo can now be fullfilled.
Hmm, I wear my garments all the time, speedos occasionally, and I can’t say I’ve had much of a problem either way.
Brian Johnston wrote:I have heard stories of people that would actually take their garments half off, wash half their body, then switch, so as to never remove them. But I think that was even considered extreme by the most conservative and literal believers.
A few people I know have claimed they have this attitude, but they won’t let me watch them shower (nor do I have any desire to watch them), so I can’t say for sure. Occasionally when I’m working out at the gym, I’ll see people wearing garments under their T-shirts and sweats. It’s almost always older people, though, so maybe it’s a generational attitude.
I’m interested in all this if I come to wear them… Don’t most people have more than one set anyway, since most people change their underpants daily (I know I do)
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