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we should all be in church with our children’s clothes perfectly ironed
mwallace57, I would take this with a grain of salt. First you have the ‘new” leader factor, and secondly, it’s just one person’s opinion.
I personally think that sometimes we, especially here in Utah, get hung up on what is proper and what is not. In my opinion, if you and your kids are clean, and their hair is combed and their clothes are clean and relatively unrumpled, I’d let this fly by and not worry about it. Save the guilt for useful and important things and use your entitlement to the spirit by virtue of your role as mother to determine the best use of time for your personal stewardship.
Mme Curie – I’d check on my porn stat of 25%. I don’t have the source – it’s basically hearsay from other porn discussion elsewhere in the b’nacle. My guess is that some is couples-porn, but I don’t know (apparently more couples frequent strip joints than previously also, another social change in the making). Also, I think porn’s something that even when viewed as a couple doesn’t necessarily stay that way. My biggest objection to porn is supporting an exploitative industry. Well, I genuninely enjoyed Holland’s remarks about the BofM and I appreciated his boldness. In all of my questioning, it was the BofM and my experience with it that I couldn’t argue with. It is the thing, above all, that has kept me anchored to this faith. I really do believe the record is true. I also felt enlightened by the talks on the natural man in terms of hard hearts vs. soft ones. I appreciated that twice the same scriptures concerning the natural man being an enemy to God were shared and I appreciated the reference to spiritual discernment. It was good to get a fresh tutorial on the subject. I also appreciated Elder Christopherson’s remarks there at the end of Sunday’s 2nd session.
I am now going to eat brownie with the kids and take a family drive thru the canyon. Enjoy your Conference Sunday everyone.
I also appreciated brother Hollands talk on the BofM. I always like him and feel his geniune sincerity. I did not like brother Ringworms talk about ‘easy and willing’ and if you are that way you will have the spirit. He used those words like a hundred times where it was overkill. It was like saying if you question or doubt or struggle with the gospel you are not as good a person and will not have the spirit. The choir was sure nice though. It’s Elder RIngwood – although Ringworm is a funny alternative. 
He’s not an apostle, and, more importantly, that’s not taught by the united voice of the apostles, so I chalk it up to personal opinion.
Old-Timer wrote:It’s Elder RIngwood – although Ringworm is a funny alternative.
He’s not an apostle, and, more importantly, that’s not taught by the united voice of the apostles, so I chalk it up to personal opinion.
Oh my gosh! That is funny that I called him ‘Ringworm’; well, I was ticked off so it somehow came through. Thanks for explaining that Ray. It makes me feel better.
We weren’t able to go to our normal Sunday meeting so we stayed home and watched conference. I was totally impressed by President Monson’s admonishments to do something every day for others that may be less fortunate. It was, IMHO, overall a wonderful conference with a lot of positive messages that we all would do well to put into practice in our everyday lives.
I too really enjoyed the simple things the children did to serve others than Pres. Monson shared. I thought that was very touching. My DH also said that at the PH session, for the first time ever he hadn’t heard any of the stories Pres. Monson shared. Perhaps Pres. Monson’s pulling a Paul H. Dunn?? (JK) Hi all, I did not watch that much of conference this year (I always get so much more out of the printed version), but I did watch the 2nd session on Sunday and felt that Bro.(Elder?) Ringwood’s talk was pretty spot on for me. While I agree that he was a bit repetitive and simplistic, it reminded me that the gospel is fairly simple and that sometimes when I grapple with the weighty subjects and intellectual and social challenges with the church, I end up making it much more complicated than it needs to be. I am thinking of a talk Pres. Eyring gave (maybe at a stake conf?) where he talked about the Lord’s mercy being so much more encompassing than we really understand. For me, these two messages mean that we don’t have to have all the answers, or see all of the problems resolved in order to feel the love of our Savior. Though simple, this was a peaceful reminder that I really needed.
Thanks Overit, It is interesting how two people can hear the same talk and get different things out of it. I am glad you shared what you gathered from it and I like that. Each of us are so unique and have so much to add to this group.
I totally loved President Monson’s talk on service. And I did notice a lot of the talks were on loving God and each other. When Holland was going to speak, I actually said to my family,”oh, it’s Holland, I love his talks” and I was so excited to hear what he had to say. I’ve got to say that I was disappointed with what he said. What did he say, I was silly and pathetic for not believing the Book of Mormon is true? I understand that he believes it is true and I know that he is a good man. I just did not like the way his talk made me feel!
Also, MWallace you made me laugh about the ironing. I hate to iron and therefore send my husband out with wrinkled shirts all the time. I notice that my girls have picked this up too. Ah well, there are more important things in life than ironing, don’t you think???
Peaceandjoy wrote:I’ve got to say that I was disappointed with what he said. What did he say, I was silly and pathetic for not believing the Book of Mormon is true? I understand that he believes it is true and I know that he is a good man. I just did not like the way his talk made me feel!
It is interesting how we react and feel about things our leaders say. I can see why you would respond as you did. It did feel like he was saying that it is so obvious that the BofM is true that those who say different are pathetic. I too admire Elder Holland in many ways, and he is a good sincere man. But, good sincere people say things all the time, especially when there are strong emotions involved, that can come across demeaning. How many times have people taken what we have said all wrong and later we do discover we just did not express ourselves well. So, I cut him some slack. But, what would he say to me if I told him how much my sincere, good husband, studied, prayed,and fasted about the BofM and Moroni’s promise and never got it after 30 years of trying? I have always had a rough time with the BofM because I really could not relate to alot of it. I mean angels are appearing to wicked sons regularly, and amazing stuff happens that my life can just not relate to. I wish an angel had appeared to my older brother when he began sexually abusing my sister. So, sometimes I really wonder if this is just stories or really happened.
Bridget, Thank you so much for your reply. It really helps to know that others are struggling as me. I, too have read the Book of Mormon and have had no answers. I am so frustrated and lost lately. So his talk didn’t help me any. I really wish I had such a strong testimony. It would certainly be easier. I’m just so tired of the whole thing. I don’t know what to do.
I hadn’t considered that Elder Holland’s talk would make one feel foolish or pathetic. I guess I feel kind of sorry about that. I thought that perhaps he was challenging boldly some of the churches harshes critics. I don’t necessarily believe he was talking to the individual who is struggling with testimony or heart felt questions about the book. I wonder if Elder Holland’s remarks were directed at this group specifically, if they wouldn’t have a gentler and more understanding tone and perhaps even a broader focus filled with helpful invitations. I was thinking about what Bridget said about her H never getting a “witness” that the book is true. This is an intreging problem. I have never gotten “a witness” either…. but many things tell me that it is true including lots of communication from the spirit. The spirit follows and confirms truth and when we are living in truth the spirit will be with us. At least that has been my experience. Not that it answers every question directly or that it commands in everything. But as I analyze what I call my testimony, I see that the fabric of it is literally made up of thousands of experiences that combine together to what I call a “witness”. But it didn’t come simply because I asked one question over and over and finally got a “yes” from heaven, although I have heard that some testimonies start out that way. I think perhaps it could be a mistake to confine oneself to those expectations even if that is what everyone says over and over.
I think one way the truth of the book comes is as we live the words and apply the principles to our lives. I mean the book is a complete analysis of the natural man and all of its vices and then of course all of the antidotes. It is also a commentary on society and even governments and the consequences of certain philosophies. I think if one really looks at these questions in terms of actual application that the spirit couldn’t help but testify in some way that its true or not. At least this has been my experience with the book. I don’t find much satsifaction in the historical or scientific debates. Imo, they divert one away from the purpose and design of why we should read the book in the first place, not to mention failing to answer the questions of my soul. I am not concerned about the question of “horses” for example. For all I know, it could have been an error in the translation process somewhere along the line. Heck, Mormon himself could have misspelled something or used a word we don’t understand in English. I can’t place the question of truth solely on science anymore than I could do that with the question of Christ himself. The Book says its contains the words of Christ. I think that is a more important question. Does the book bring a person to Christ and is a person more santicfied and more perfected by applying the lessons taught within? That is the question I wanted and the one I could only get by living it myself.
Peaceandjoy, I would read Elder Holland’s talk slowly – focusing carefully on parsing exactly what he said and, most importantly, to whom he said it. Frankly, you weren’t his target audience. It’s really, really easy to feel attacked when some of the statements are isolated, but the overall talk was addressed to those who 1) don’t even try to understand the BofM on a spiritual level but dismiss and attack it anyway and 2) those who intentionally twist its words to attack Joseph as a fraud. This is one talk that comes actoss VERY differently when it is read and parsed carefully than when many people initially listened, since it’s hard when listening to remember what he said along the way when a particularly blunt statement is heard. MANY people think he was talking to them when he just wasn’t.
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