- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
Is cafeteria Mormon a reworking of the Buffet Mormon term used in the STayLDS article? Is this term, cafeteria Mormon used frequently on other discussion forums? Or is the term Buffet Mormon used frequently elsewhere, or just here? I can see how it might offend people who are struggling with addictions or the new member who is still kicking habits. Or even long-time people like me who’ve experienced the dark side of the force and are still smarting, and who have lost commitment.
There are the times when the “I don’t care WHAT’s happened to you, you’re still expected to tow the line on all commandments, end of story” line seems rather harsh.
Answered my own question….it’s all over the net that term, cafeteria Mormon: cwald wrote:yes, thanks Ray for the mention.
🙂 behappy wrote:Nelson’s hijacking of the phrase Cafeteria Mormon was brilliant.
By taking credit for the phrase and redefining it he now owns the phrase and everyone in the church knows it is a bad thing to be a Cafeteria Mormon. It pissed me off to the point I turned conference off and enjoy the rest of the day with my family. He took a phrase that described members who struggle with historical evidence and changed it to someone who can’t hack it and wants to break the commandments. I saw this as a power play and a way of saying there is only one way to be and if you don’t follow the rules you are not welcome.Nelson knew exactly what he was doing. TBMs got a good laugh and think he coined a cute phrase and the doubters got minimized and painted as only wanting to sin. I feel like everything I have been trying to do as of late is for not. I want to look for the good in Mormonism, I want to stay involved but it has been increasingly more difficult as of late and this was just another do what you are told or you are not committed and less of a Mormon. Am I reading too much into the comment?
Yeah. I actually called my parents, whom I don’t talk with much, just to tell them how much I enjoyed conference today and thought it was gospel centered — and somehow they worked this talk into the conversation. I have used the terms “cafeteria’ and “middle way” before when talking to them. Anyway, in there own loving way, they told me that I need to repent, accept the prophet and agree with everything he says, or get out. They told me flat out, that “there is no room in our family for ‘middle way Mormons’ who lack faith in the one and only true church.”
It was horrible. At one point in the conversation, my good father said, that if Irefuse to accept everything the prophet says as “truth coming from god,”
that I am following Satan. Well, if I was a cafeteria Mormon, then I would take that line of thinking as all or nothing, quit, lose the next generation, and tick off my wife. If you look at it from a sheer utilitarian perspective (as God did when he said its better that one man perish than a whole nation die in unbelief), you see it’s better to have someone being a cafeteria Mormon if he’s supporting the next generation and not breaking the chain, so to speak. Faulty reasoning above, I’m afraid. I’d rather have the cafeteria Mormons with us — at least then they are open to influence, and we get to keep the next generation.
cwald wrote:They told me flat out, that “there is no room in our family for ‘middle way Mormons’ who lack faith in the one and only true church.” It was horrible.
Oh, dear, cwald. I’ve never wept for an alien before, but I’m really sorry to read this. Truly sorry for you.
Every person in the church is a cafeteria Mormon – either they know it or they don’t. Everyone has a unique interpretation of the doctrines, and everyone is a sinner. Hopefully we are not deliberate sinners or willfully misinterpreting things to take the easy way out. I think the talk is a mischaracterization of how that term is commonly used, to mean how one approaches understanding the things that are said in the church. Sis. Kimball referred to the exact same thing but she called it “putting things on a shelf.” That is the common definition. If leaders really want people to get out who are struggling, then they aren’t being Christlike, and they will be held accountable for that by a higher power than me. I don’t think that is the intention. They just don’t want more people struggling or those that doubt to choose to not live the commandments as the result of their doubt. I do agree that following despite doubt is a stronger position than looking for reasons to justify not following commandments. But I’ve never heard the term “cafeteria” Mormonism used in that way up to now. It’s a little tone deaf to use it in the wrong way and then highjack the term, condemning it. I just think it’s an old dude thing.
Cwald, that IS horrible what your parents said. Wow, I just can’t believe it. That would be like telling my gay son he is no longer welcome in our home and he is a horrible person because he is gay. Just made me want to cry. I am so sorry. “Father forgive them for they have no idea how bad this was.” I care about you cwald. Bridget bridget_night wrote:Cwald, that IS horrible what your parents said. Wow, I just can’t believe it.
Yeah, it sucks. I shouldn’t be surprised, but I always let myself build up hope. Oh well, I am certainly in an extreme situation.
When good father made the comment that “you either follow the LDS Prophet, or you follow Satan” I admit that I really lost it. Yes, my family is extreme cultural zealots, but that was so over the top, even for them. I could not believe that folks of our faith would ever equate or make that kind of leap, but that is the family I grew up in, and the culture that I grew up in. They are not alone in their beliefs. It’s the foundation of what I understand of Mormondom – regardless of what others here may say.
Our people will not listen to the the very prophets that they condemn me for not listening to and obeying.Very very sad. I did not sleep well. Dear Cwald, It does hurt so much more coming from family. You know my threads about my brother and sister in law using my deceased dad’s testimony against me. I have just come to realize they have too much vested in the church and their faith and just couldn’t handle a chink in their armour. But, I have come to see that just as my dad had so many marvelous qualities, he had some serious flaws as well. This is how I see the church. On my pen is written these words: “The Power to question is the basis of all human progress.” But, as Jack Nicolson says in a few good men, “You can’t handle the truth.” Sometimes the truth is darn ugly and it hurts like hell. But no healing begins without it.
I wonder if the GA’s ever have some real doubts and know the church histories and problems with the church but will never voice them?
cwald wrote:Yeah, it sucks.
Hang in there, brother. That is a painful thing to have to deal with, even though you know in your heart it’s all craziness. On the bright side, at least you’re not getting it from your spouse.
I agree completely with Hawk’s comment – and it’s the same general reason why I was able to shrug it off myself at the time. He focused on commandments, and I agere totally that if I really believe something is a commandment, I’m not going to ignore it. I just won’t. It was just a misunderstanding of a term that he thinks means something that it doesn’t mean to the VAST majority of those who use it in a positive way. I know that is a charitable approach, but it’s important to me to be as charitable as I am capable of being.
cwald wrote:bridget_night wrote:Cwald, that IS horrible what your parents said. Wow, I just can’t believe it.
Yeah, it sucks. I shouldn’t be surprised, but I always let myself build up hope. Oh well, I am certainly in an extreme situation.
When good father made the comment that “you either follow the LDS Prophet, or you follow Satan” I admit that I really lost it. Yes, my family is extreme cultural zealots, but that was so over the top, even for them. I could not believe that folks of our faith would ever equate or make that kind of leap, but that is the family I grew up in, and the culture that I grew up in. They are not alone in their beliefs. It’s the foundation of what I understand of Mormondom – regardless of what others here may say.
Our people will not listen to the the very prophets that they condemn me for not listening to and obeying.Very very sad. I did not sleep well. Just remember that in some backwards way he was trying to show love. If you truly believed your child was going to hell or whatever because of his actions, you’d feel compelled to do something, wouldn’t you? It’s your kid and he is going to suffer, or perhaps be cut off from the family for eternity because that’s what the church leaders have convinced you of. It’s the same stuff that leads parents of gay kids to go crazy. Your kid is an abomination to the lord – you heard it right in conference. How are you going to fix this?
Quote:Just remember that in some backwards way he was trying to show love. If you truly believed your child was going to hell or whatever because of his actions, you’d feel compelled to do something, wouldn’t you? It’s your kid and he is going to suffer, or perhaps be cut off from the family for eternity because that’s what the church leaders have convinced you of. It’s the same stuff that leads parents of gay kids to go crazy. Your kid is an abomination to the lord – you heard it right in conference. How are you going to fix this?
That is true Brown but to me that makes it worse coming from men of God. Thank goodness I never treated my gay son this way. On the lighter side, this was just posted on my facebook thread about Monson saying young men should get married. It’s a spoof and I thought it was hilarious:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boa3TvsAc3E&feature=player_embedded Brown wrote:Just remember that in some backwards way he was trying to show love.
Yes. This is true.
It’s all good.
cwald wrote:Lynn Robbins talk was phenomenally good. VERY VERY good
I didn’t hear as many talks this past conference as I usually do, but VERY, VERY GOOD doesn’t even begin to describe Lynn Robbins talk. I guess I’ve got a new favorite speaker.cwald wrote:yes, thanks Ray for the mention.
🙂 behappy wrote:Nelson’s hijacking of the phrase Cafeteria Mormon was brilliant.
By taking credit for the phrase and redefining it he now owns the phrase and everyone in the church knows it is a bad thing to be a Cafeteria Mormon. It pissed me off to the point I turned conference off and enjoy the rest of the day with my family. He took a phrase that described members who struggle with historical evidence and changed it to someone who can’t hack it and wants to break the commandments. I saw this as a power play and a way of saying there is only one way to be and if you don’t follow the rules you are not welcome.Nelson knew exactly what he was doing. TBMs got a good laugh and think he coined a cute phrase and the doubters got minimized and painted as only wanting to sin. I feel like everything I have been trying to do as of late is for not. I want to look for the good in Mormonism, I want to stay involved but it has been increasingly more difficult as of late and this was just another do what you are told or you are not committed and less of a Mormon. Am I reading too much into the comment?
Yeah. I actually called my parents, whom I don’t talk with much, just to tell them how much I enjoyed conference today and thought it was gospel centered — and somehow they worked this talk into the conversation. I have used the terms “cafeteria’ and “middle way” before when talking to them. Anyway, in there own loving way, they told me that I need to repent, accept the prophet and agree with everything he says, or get out. They told me flat out, that “there is no room in our family for ‘middle way Mormons’ who lack faith in the one and only true church.”
It was horrible. At one point in the conversation, my good father said, that if Irefuse to accept everything the prophet says as “truth coming from god,”
that I am following Satan. They also used the whole, you only disagree with the prophet because you want to live a riotous life and go out and just sin indiscriminately. And that if I supported the homosexual movement, that god would never allow us to be a family together in the CK. This was after i tried to explain my concerns about the LDS church stance on gays choosing to be gay, which, I admit, I was in tears trying to express how I felt it was just a matter of love and compassion, rather than an argument with the churches rules about TRs. yeah, anyway, it hurt. I know that my parents, and my culture is crazy, even for Mormons, but I haven’t heard this kind of harsh rhetoric in a long long time. Hopefully this is the exception, and not the message that our membership heard today.
cwald, I would just love it if either of my grown kids had called me and told me they’d listened to Conference and enjoyed it. If that day ever happens, I will be on top of the world.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.