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I moved into a different stake 5 years ago and felt like I had changed religions. I have been trying to get help for 5 years with marital problems
I shouldn’t still be TRYING to get help after this long. I have heard from so many people that this is an unfriendly stake and and I think our ward is especially difficult—and we moved back into the ward I grew up in.There have been so many strange things happen and said that I am feeling so disillusioned. I don’t want to lose my faith–but I am having trouble hanging on to it. I am feeling almost a desperate need to move out of this stake and back to my old stake and ward. It just seems like something is not quite right here.
several of my children and one of my sisters have all told me I should just go to another ward. I went and spoke to my old bishop–now the stake president of my old stake—and he offered to help me and visit with my husband–but he would have to meet with him at his work office so as to avoid any problems with the ecclesiastical order. I am greatful for his offer of help—but I can’t understand why in my own stake it has been like pulling teeth to get anyone to help us.
My son called our stake pres and told him he wasn’t doing his job—he called us in after not speaking to either my husband or I for ages. At one point he asked me what I wanted him to do because he was “only a carpenter” I told him “so was Christ” I’m not usually that quick on the draw! His reply to that was “ouch–but Christ was perfect” I feel that they ignored me and my husband for so long until the problems escalated to the point of being far more difficult to deal with—and now I’m being ask what I am wanting them to do
I just told him that he is entitled to inspiration to know how to help us
I’ve read what the prophets and apostles have said—I have a right to ask for help—they’ve just dropped the ball—-and I’m left feeling like I am asking something either too difficult or unreasonable. very frustrating!Hi Mom, 
It is frustrating to be in a uncomfortable, even painful marriage, trying to make progress, but it’s just not happening.
Just an idea… my husband and I have gone on marriage retreats – the church (BYU especially) offers some, as well as others.
It’s usually a weekend – so it’s nice to have a little break from the kids, & there is usually a good speaker (with some good marriage advice) & good food.
I hope the best for you.
How did you find out about the retreats? My husband and I flew back east in june–I went to see a doctor, and we got along so well while we were there away from work and the kids. A retreat that focuses on marriage might be really good for us–but, he doesn’t like meetings–so maybe it wouldn’t be good—but I’d still like to look into it. Any idea on the average cost? I have family down there and my daughter hopes to go to school there next fall. Hi mom, I too can sympathise – I sometimes wonder if these “happily ever after” marriages ever happen for anybody. Perhaps they do but I think for most of us it can be a challenging road. I hope that because you have been working on this for 5 years that there is enough good in your marriage to continue to work on it (although I recognise that for some marriages this may not be the case.)
I remember going to my Bishop for marital counseling. He was a great guy. I had immagined it to be some form of “talk therapy” where we get it all off our chest and the Bishop will mediate and bring it back to helpful solutions. As I remember it, his major concern was weather or not we were still physically intimate. Once we answered in the affirmative – he seemed relieved that our problems weren’t too serious. He did give us some suggestions (read, pray, date) but that was about it. Looking back, I know that this Bishop loved us and did the best he could.
I’m sure that not all church leaders are created equal but I am willing to bet that the majority of them are not qualified to provide marital assistance.
Sorry you are dealing with some difficult things! Hang in there. Things will get better! I have felt the same way you have before about being in a new ward and finding the ward unfriendly. Personally, I compare every new ward I am in to my first ward ever. That’s a heavy comparison because my first ward had lots of great people. However, don’t give up! It’s unlikely that everyone in your new ward in unfriendly.
Due to the fact that you are unhappy with the help the church has provided you, have you considered outside professional help? Personally, I don’t like the church too involved in my personal business.
Best wishes and stay positive!
Dear momto11, Perhaps you can make an appointment with your bishop / stake president and ask him to refer you to a licensed counselor. As was mentioned previously, few church leaders are qualified to be marriage counselors and I think leaders in some areas recognize that and often refer people to professional counselors and pay all or a portion of the bill. I know in my stake that bishops only see people once or twice before referring them to a marriage or other type of counselor.
Personal anecdote to share – at one point my wife and I were having difficulty in our marriage. My dad who was visiting from a long distance and while serving as bishop in that ward decided to play bishop and marriage counselor to me and my wife. It was well intended and not bad advice, but it was irrelevant advice. The doctor we went to was much more effective. He quickly determined my wife had postpartum depression, prescribed the appropriate medication,and told me to get up in the night with the baby, after which time our marriage improved gradually. I appreciate bishops and their good faith efforts, but you might be better off with a counselor, especially if the stake has the problems you describe.
Quote:I’m sure that not all church leaders are created equal but I am willing to bet that the majority of them are not qualified to provide marital assistance.
Amen. Bishops (and HPGLs and EQPs and RS Presidents . . .) aren’t called because they are great personal counselors, and they aren’t given any clinical training in counseling of any kind. Some are great counselors; most are good listeners who really care; some are bad counselors; a very few aren’t much as caring humans.
If you are in a situation where your marriage is in serious need to outside assistance, please consider professional counseling. We use the Priesthood authority analogy in the Church all the time; this is the exact same issue, at heart. Go to someone who is qualified to be an authority on the subject, not a Bishop – no matter how good and sincere he might be. Go to the Bishop for a listening ear and for spiritual advice – understanding that, even then, it won’t always be totally inspired and “perfect”.
I guess I should add a couple of things. The ward i am living in now is the ward I grew up in and the stake president was in my ward–same age as my oldest sister—I’ve known him about 40 years. Our insurance will not cover marriage counseling. A year or two ago our bishop allowed us 3 visits with a counselor at LDS social services—but the quality of counselors we get here has been notoriously bad—even my stake pres acknowledged that. The counselor that we saw 3 times sent us home with a book and told us to read it—he had not been using this book, it looked like a manual for one of those special group classes they sometimes do at church, this one was about improving your marriage—-but there was no follow up. I read through the manual, but my husband didn’t want to, even when I asked him to read it, just for me. He said he’d get around to it sometime—I usually know that if I ask him to do something—he won’t do it just because I asked him to—-he’s pretty stubborn that way. I did eventually see that he had at least picked it up at some point—don’t know how much he read. The whole thing just wasn’t handled well.
Last year my hubby was making sure we had family prayer every night. When I mentioned it to him, he said that the bishop had asked him to do that, however, over time he quit doing it on a regular basis. I mentioned it to the bishop and he said he had never told my husband to stop. so, i guess the point I’m trying to make is that I can see a difference for the better when the leaders meet with my husband. He may not be willing to go to regular counseling, but he does seem willing to listen to counsel from church leaders—-he just falls off the wagon too easily if they don’t meet with him often enough. I think when he has to be accountable to someone for the way he is acting and what he is saying, he has a tendency to do better.
When I met my husband, he was kind and thoughtful—he knew he had screwed up in his first marriage and he knew what he needed to do to make a better marriage. He was wonderful for the first 6 months of our marriage (not perfect, but pretty darn great). After that time, he said it was too hard to keep up that much commitment. I’ve seen what he is capable of and what he can be like, he knows how to treat me right and I still believe in him—I just think he needs some ongoing encouragement and someone to remind him that marriage takes work—and that everyone has to work at it.
He has also said that he feels like he is struggling with anxiety and depression—but would not get any help when I suggested it—I think he will listen to a leader if they tell him he needs to get himself some help—and especially if they follow up with him to make sure he gets some help.
I know that our church leadership is not made up of trained counselors–but my husband seems willing to listen to our stake president right now—-I have just been so frustrated that the stake president wasn’t following through with seeing my husband. He has now said that he will visit with my hubby once a month. This is what a professional counselor had suggested over 5 years ago—-and what I have been trying to get a church leader to do ever since. I have asked 4 different bishops, and all of them said they would do it—but somehow it never seemed to happen until my family stepped in and said I needed help
I keep wondering why I don’t seem to matter enough to anyone—why they won’t help when I ask,why they only pay attention when my children and my mother tell them I need help.Kind of leaves me feeling pretty insignificant.
Sorry to hear that Mom, I can only guess how my experience might apply to yours – so take my 2 cents for what it might be worth (or not worth).
I would be careful labeling your husband as the problem in your marriage and even more careful involving so many outsiders in fixing that problem. I know that my wife has many justified complaints about my weaknesses. I believe that I would feel resentful if she started venting these complaints to others and even more so if she attempted to get them to change me. I can be pretty stubborn and I want at least the illusion that my efforts toward my wife are self motivated – not that I had to be prodded repeatedly by church officials. It sounds like you are using his sense of duty/loyalty to the church in order to overcome that stubbornness. I’m just concerned that if that sense of duty ever waned then you would be out of leverage. I’m sure you came to this course of action as a last resort – I just know that I would be resentful/bitter against my spouse if she dragged me into meetings with my SP to get me to become a better husband.
Anyway, it sounds like the SP has finally made a commitment to meet with your husband regularly. I hope that there is an improvement for you and your spouse.
Your friend,
Roy
Wow, you have given the church 10 percent of your income every year of your life and the church will only give you 3 appointments with counselors. That’s messed up! Great way of looking after the flock. Billions for malls and jack for the parishioner. I really agree with what Roy wrote. I would be very careful involving others with your marital problems. Ultimately, the responsibility of keeping your marriage together belongs to you and your husband. IMHO, there is not much the church can really do in this scenario. From my experience, what you tell these people in confidence probably gets blasted to the entire ward via ward council and PEC.
It seems like you are upset that church leaders don’t talk to your husband more because when they do, you like your husbands behavior better.
I believe that the leadership of the church spends at least 95% of their time being administrators. In their roles as administrators, they apply what they learned in college & professional experience to spiritual matters (5%).
Alot of times it doesn’t fit. Most Bishops (for example) are good men try to do a difficult job under difficult conditions.
I for one, would never be able to do their jobs.
Over the years, the church has made improvements. For example, substance abuse.
IMO, more needs to be done to provide resources to solve social problems.
Mike from Milton.
I’ve had various mental health issues. With anxiety and depression, it’s difficult for me to make appointments with doctors. Have you tried setting up an appointment for your husband? My wife has done that several times. Just make the appointment and tell him to go. Just an idea. momto11 wrote:… I read through the manual, but my husband didn’t want to, even when I asked him to read it, just for me. He said he’d get around to it sometime—I usually know that if I ask him to do something—he won’t do it just because I asked him to—-he’s pretty stubborn that way. I did eventually see that he had at least picked it up at some point—don’t know how much he read…
…He has now said that he will visit with my hubby once a month. This is what a professional counselor had suggested over 5 years ago—-and what I have been trying to get a church leader to do ever since. I have asked 4 different bishops, and all of them said they would do it—but somehow it never seemed to happen until my family stepped in and said I needed help
I keep wondering why I don’t seem to matter enough to anyone—why they won’t help when I ask,why they only pay attention when my children and my mother tell them I need help.Kind of leaves me feeling pretty insignificant.
Momto11,My impression is that your husband’s actions or inaction sometimes makes you feel insignificant.
Maybe also, being a mom with so many kids with so many needs can cause you to neglect the commandment: love yourself (love others AS yourself).
I can relate – growing up I felt and was neglected, so now I feel especially sensitive when people ignore me, as if I’m not important enough.
I still struggle with trying to convince myself that I’m worth taking up space, by convincing others to prove to me that I am worth it.
I’m slowly realizing that people, including my husband are into their own world & are imperfect – and I can’t put my trust “in the arm of flesh.”
I’m realizing that I need to help myself feel and be significant – by putting my heart and soul into what I believe in – especially loving others and myself… focousing on successes and positive aspects.
What times in your life have you felt significant?
momto11 wrote:How did you find out about the retreats? My husband and I flew back east in june–I went to see a doctor, and we got along so well while we were there away from work and the kids. A retreat that focuses on marriage might be really good for us–but, he doesn’t like meetings–so maybe it wouldn’t be good—but I’d still like to look into it. Any idea on the average cost? I have family down there and my daughter hopes to go to school there next fall.
I don’t remember exactly how I found out – but BYU does one several times every year at Aspen Grove (very beautiful area)…http://aspengrove.byu.edu/fallwinter/marriage.cfm A little advice… if you go in the winter, watch out for the “cross country skiing” – in some areas it’s steep like regular skiing, except you have no way to turn out of the ski grooves… Then again, maybe it’s the very thing your marriage needs to be woken up!
😯 😆 Oh – and tell your husband, the food is great.
I don’t ever feel significant anymore. The reason I have pushed for a bishop or stake president to meet with my husband on a regular basis is because my HUSBAND SAID HE WAS WILLING TO DO THIS. It wasn’t my idea, it came from a professional LDS counselor.
Also, one night as my hubby and I were having a civilized conversation, he suggested someone that he thought could help us—it was our former bishop who is now the stake president—in the OTHER stake. This man had already volunteered to help us–I had gone and talked to him at work once when i didn’t know what to do to get help. When my husband suggested him, I fessed up to already having talked to him and that he volunteered to help. But, since he is in the other stake, he said he would have to meet with my husband at his work office. I know the church has a certain priesthood order we are supposed to follow, but my husband said this man is our friend and there is nothing wrong with having a friend help us if we feel like they can help.
I can’t make an appointment for my husband to go to a counselor–he would raise hell if I did that and I’m sure he would refuse to go.
My husband has also openly admitted to being verbally abusive to the bishop and stake president–(he has never denied anything)—-finally to the point of starting to be physically abusive–fortunately it wasn’t dangerous and only happened once–but we are still dealing with the emotional and verbal abuse.
Featherina—My mother once told me that I had been easy to ignore because I was quiet and good and I sat in my rocking chair and sang to myself or listened to music—I didn’t cause problems—then, when I found people that gave me attention and my family realized I was moving away from the church, my Mother tried to talk to me and says I would never talk—-we had no relationship by that point, it’s hard to reach someone you don’t have a relationship with—-I can’t tell you how many time i heard my mother tell me when i was older how sick she got of teenagers—i was the 3rd from the bottom of a combined family of 13. I guess I probably am like you and get sensitive when I feel like people are ignoring me—and for the exact reason you said—i feel like I am not important enough. i am dealing with so much of my own depression and anxiety—and a number of health problems, including chronic pain—which makes it difficult for me to do a whole lot–some days I am better than others–but I have been trying to get help for years and trying all kinds of different things to get well.
The last time I felt significant, is when one of our LDS neighbors told me that I was the only one that had been able to get through to a non-LDS elderly couple that live by us—I just happen to like these people and have gone out of my way to go over and talk to them—and I helped them one day when the husband needed to go to the hospital. I don’t try to teach them about the church–I just try to be friendly to them–and I really like them.
He knows he neds to see the doctor and get on medication–but i know he will put it off unless someone pushes him—he doesn’t seem to see the damage it is causing to our family. One of our kids told me he feels like his Dad doesn’t even care when he comes over and brings the grandkids—and the kids have made comments about how their Dad is acting–i was surprised when one of my daughters told me she thought her dad had been acting weird for quite awhile—and I was surprised when she told me that she didn’t think I was the problem–I had told her that Dad kept telling me I was the problem.
Quote:I just happen to like these people and have gone out of my way to go over and talk to them—and I helped them one day when the husband needed to go to the hospital. I don’t try to teach them about the church–I just try to be friendly to them–and I really like them.
That’s the key to “sharing the Gospel” – which is very different than “doing missionary work”. Keep doing that for everyone and let the church chips fall where they may.
It’s no wonder your current Bishop and Stake President aren’t actively involved, if their earlier attempts resulted in a physical confrontation and multiple cases of verbal confrontation. If your husband is willing to talk with your former Bishop, and if it can happen at that man’s work, try to arrange that. If that man can recommend serious personal and marriage counseling, your husband might accept it. He might not, but it probably needs to be suggested by someone in what your husband sees as a position of authority.
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