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they didn’t make much in the way of earlier attempts—I asked for help because of the verbal abuse, and i didn’t get it. It wasn’t until it escalated and my children and my mother contacted the stake pres that he even became aware that we were having any problems. Our bishop was aware, but neither my husband nor I feel like he can help us. I had read an Ensign article years ago—-The Silent Heart Breaker—That discussed verbal and emotional abuse and said that if not gotten under control it can often lead to physical abuse. It also said that often a woman who is treated this way will sink into depression and illness
sometimes I wonder if that is part of what is wrong with me and why i can’t seem to get better no matter what I do. I actually feel better physically and mentally when my husband is on a good roll.The article also said that some women learn to fight back—sad to say—I’ve learned to fight back a lot of times. Once, when he through a pillow at me, I clocked him so hard on the side of the head and told him to NEVER throw anything at me again—he told me that I don’t hit like a girl—guess I can be just as bad as him on occasion.
Religious counseling alone can’t stop an abusive relationship. If the type of abuse you describe is to stop, it almost always has to be through some kind of therapy that focuses on trigger recognition and reaction modification on the part of the abuser – and, perhaps, medical diagnosis and medication (which often is overlooked in cases like you describe). Sometimes, the abuser has undiagnosed issues that keep him or her from being able to control his or her reactions properly. It can’t be done by the abused taking responsibility for the abuse.
Speaking as an admin, honestly, we can try to help with perspectives about issues related to crises of faith – and those of us who have experienced abuse of some kind can deal with that issue, but none of us are professional counselors. Your situation needs that type of help also, and I hope you can find a way to have it arranged. Again, have you talked with your former Bishop about this as openly as you have here?
Finally, if it ever turns physical in a way that truly is threatening, all I can do is beg you to go immediately to someone in a position of authority and explain directly and explicitly what happened. In those situations, it’s nearly impossible to fix anything without outside intervention and professional help.
YOU ARE SIGNIFICANT! You are significant to your children and in the eyes of your creator. I’m sorry you feel this way. momto11 wrote:I don’t ever feel significant anymore.
Based on what you’ve shared here, you may feel insignificant, or even significant in a negative way partly because of your husband’s tendency to shift responsilibity/blame to you, instead of cherishing you… also I imagine your past history and having little time for yourself also contributes to you feeling insignificant.My marriage has been struggling for a while – not in the exact way yours is – but still, for a while I sought attention elsewhere.
My husband has been abusive in various ways… but overall, I think he’s a good man – but my feelings for him seem to be disappearing.
I’ve had what some could call, an “emotional affair” – based on fantasy – never acting on it.
I’m realizing though, that everything is filtered through me – I interpret how others act, and am somewhat co-dependent in that I personalize it.
So, if my husband is angry and I know it’s because he had a bad day at work, but he’s taking it out on me, I feel that it reflects that I’m a bad person & am somehow to blame.
Logically, I see how ridiculous this is to believe this… but emotionally, it seems automatic, part of a long habitual history.
I’ve struggled with low self esteem for a long time, and I always thought the key was impressing people.
I was under the false impression that if others liked me, it was an indication of my value/significance & if they didn’t it meant I was worthless.
Part of me has always known that this is wrong… that my worth is independent of what others think/say or do.
I prayed and prayed to be relieved of the pain of feeling so worthless, of feeling so vulnerable to basing my entire sense of worth on others’ perceived impressions of me.
Be careful what you pray for!
My prayers were answered by having almost everyone in my life hate me, or voice some kind of hatred for me.
It was almost funny – if it didn’t hurt so much – how so many situations one after another presented similar situations.
One time, I was literally called out on my imperfections in front of a large group, even after I had cried to her about my struggles.
Some of it is personal in my “real life” & some has been online…I’ve been threatened, disrespected, called names, made fun of… for standing for what I believe in.
Tears are rolling as I tell you this, because I still have a lot of tenderness and hurt, but I”m getting stronger!
I don’t really care so much what others think about me anymore.
I know most of us are all full of it – we’re not perfect & most of what we think is so limited & subjectively illusional.
This isn’t anything new… it’s always been this way, but only recently have my eyes been open to it.
The good thing about realizing this is that now I realize I can pick and choose how to interpret things… there’s more freedom in realizing more truth, more possiblities.
As AngryMormon mentioned, you are significant, so am I… we each have something unique to contribute to this world.
Quote:The reason I have pushed for a bishop or stake president to meet with my husband on a regular basis is because my HUSBAND SAID HE WAS WILLING TO DO THIS. It wasn’t my idea, it came from a professional LDS counselor.
Whatever motivates him in positive ways… whatever works.Quote:Featherina—My mother once told me that I had been easy to ignore because I was quiet and good and I sat in my rocking chair and sang to myself or listened to music—I didn’t cause problems—then, when I found people that gave me attention and my family realized I was moving away from the church, my Mother tried to talk to me and says I would never talk—-we had no relationship by that point, it’s hard to reach someone you don’t have a relationship with—-I can’t tell you how many time i heard my mother tell me when i was older how sick she got of teenagers—i was the 3rd from the bottom of a combined family of 13. I guess I probably am like you and get sensitive when I feel like people are ignoring me—and for the exact reason you said—i feel like I am not important enough. i am dealing with so much of my own depression and anxiety—and a number of health problems, including chronic pain—which makes it difficult for me to do a whole lot–some days I am better than others–but I have been trying to get help for years and trying all kinds of different things to get well.
Momto11 – it sounds like we have a lot in common.My mom told me similarly… that she had so much to do, it was about “selective neglect” & the squeaky wheel gets the oil.
I do think that we are so complex… so many aspects of us affect each other… like your depression and anxiety affecting your health.
A side note about this… below is a searchable link about possible metaphysical causes of illness.
Remember this is possible, not necessarily 100% true… & that it’s a potential piece of the complex puzzle of our human nature.
Also, for me personally, I like to custome make my own affirmations – then I recorded them (along with good quotes and good background music) and listen to them when I’m folding laundry.
http://www.vitalaffirmations.com/health/healingaffirmations.htm I hope you feel better, in body, mind and spirit.
Quote:The last time I felt significant, is when one of our LDS neighbors told me that I was the only one that had been able to get through to a non-LDS elderly couple that live by us—I just happen to like these people and have gone out of my way to go over and talk to them—and I helped them one day when the husband needed to go to the hospital. I don’t try to teach them about the church–I just try to be friendly to them–and I really like them.
It’s great to feel that you made a positive difference in someone else’s life.I imagine you have made many many more positive differences in others’ lives & in your own life… but you just need to realize them.
IE: Our kids generally aren’t going to say, “Mom, thanks for telling me no priviledges until my homework is done. You have made such a positive difference.” Hey, maybe I’ll just tell them what I know they’ll be thinking someday…
🙂 It’s like the mom in line at the grocery store with a few children and her baby screaming… the mom repeating, “It’s going to be alright, Ellen. You’re ok Ellen. It’s going to be alright, Ellen. You’re ok Ellen.”
Then another woman tries to help by saying, “Ellen is such a nice name and for such a cute baby.”
The mom replies, “Thank you but I’m Ellen.”
Quote:He knows he neds to see the doctor and get on medication–but i know he will put it off unless someone pushes him—he doesn’t seem to see the damage it is causing to our family. One of our kids told me he feels like his Dad doesn’t even care when he comes over and brings the grandkids—and the kids have made comments about how their Dad is acting–i was surprised when one of my daughters told me she thought her dad had been acting weird for quite awhile—and I was surprised when she told me that she didn’t think I was the problem–I had told her that Dad kept telling me I was the problem.
Since your husband seems to admit that he needs help (ie stake Pres. etc.), what’s your husband’s reasons for not wanting to see a doctor or counselor?
As Nephite/Shawn suggested… what do you think about making a Doctor’s appointment for him to either get some meds or be referred to a dr. who can help further?
(I’m not that supportive of popping pills for happiness… but I think they can help & are necessary at least temporary sometimes.)
I hope the best for you & your family, Momto11.
Take care.
momto11 wrote:I can’t make an appointment for my husband to go to a counselor–he would raise hell if I did that and I’m sure he would refuse to go….
He knows he neds to see the doctor and get on medication–but i know he will put it off unless someone pushes him—he doesn’t seem to see the damage it is causing to our family. One of our kids told me he feels like his Dad doesn’t even care when he comes over and brings the grandkids—and the kids have made comments about how their Dad is acting–i was surprised when one of my daughters told me she thought her dad had been acting weird for quite awhile—and I was surprised when she told me that she didn’t think I was the problem–I had told her that Dad kept telling me I was the problem.
I think he needs to see a doctor or get kicked out of the house.He needs to see a doctor—kicking him out of the house would be like kicking the kids and i on the street—I have no way of supporting my family–and no one to help. I have seen my husband at his best—and I still believe in him–I think he is capable of being a far better man—because I have seen it. I just think he needs the proper motivation and probably the proper medication. His yelling obscenities and throwing things only started within the year before we moved—5 1/2 – 6 years ago. I think he has a physical/mental problem and needs medication. He lost his two jobs in a period of two years (during the past 5 years) He was injured on the job and required surgery, couldn’t work for 7 months. Our orthoped put him on an antidepressant—i remember that during that time he would play games with the kids every evening upstairs in our bedroom.
I want to fight for my marriage—but I need help and was being ignored when I asked for it. The help may very well be that he needs to see a professional counselor–but he is not going to listen to me. I honestly believe that there are some people he respects enough that could convince him to get help—especially if they stay after him about getting it.
I have sometimes felt like I was wrong in asking for help–but then I read an article from one of the apostles or prophets that said I have a right to ask for help—and I think that after paying a full tithe for 25+ years I have earned the right to get some help from the church in paying the co-pay that my insurance won’t cover—otherwise, counseling is not an option. My ins. won’t pay for marriage counseling–but it will pay for counseling for depression with a doctors recommendation—we both seem to have depression—so maybe we’d be covered, even if we saw a counselor together, occasionally, since depression seems to be playing such a big part in our problems. My only other option is to use my tithing to pay for counseling, it would more than cover the cost for both my husband and i—but somehow I just can’t bring myself not to pay my tithing.
Mom, Yes, counseling is expensive and difficult to go through. I get it. How expensive and difficult is a divorce? Or living in an unhappy marriage?
If your DH had a heart attack today, would you take him to the hospital to get care, or would you be concerned that you can’t afford the co-pay? Most likely it would be both…but there are some things in life that you just have to do.
You say that your DH was and is a good man, and that you still believe in him. I believe that, otherwise you would not have married him, and you would not want to stay now. So ask yourself this. Is this good man happy being abusive? Do you think, mom, that after he is done yelling obscenities at you and the kids that he feels good inside? No. He needs help. And you need help. If you love him, you need to help.
If he won’t go to counseling, go by yourself. A good counselor can help you learn ways to help DH even if he won’t attend with you.
He is the breadwinner, and he lost two jobs in two years? I can’t imagine that he isn’t depressed. He must be feeling enough pressure to make his head explode….so he yells at you. Do you love him? Then he needs you to help him…..and being the brunt of his outbursts is not helping him.
Counseling for your depression and for you childhood abuse is what YOU need to get through this. You have forgiven your SF and that is praiseworthy. But if you don’t think that has a lasting effect, even though you can’t see it, you just may be kidding yourself. But you made it through that, you came out stronger, and with that strength you will make it through this.
Your leadership has already told you through action and words that they are unwilling/unable to step up to what you need from them. That leaves you two choices. You watch your marriage die, and you can (justifiably) blame the leadership for their inaction. OR you can accept that the help you seek from them is just not going to come,take the bull by the horns, and do what needs to be done yourself.
Find a way to pay for help, and go by yourself if you need to. Sell something, use a credit card, and yes, even dip into tithing. If you are committed to tithing, you will make a plan to catch it back up. If you spend $5,000 on therapy, then pay and extra $50 for 100 months, or when the kids are grown get a job and give your fist few checks directly to the church.
Just imagine, years from now, having gone through this trial what a pillar of strength you can be for other families going through the same crisis. I believe the Lord gives us trials to strengthen us (even though we would prefer not to be so strong). First, make yourself whole, then help your husband and your kids. I believe that there are sisters out there that will need your strength in the future, and you will be there for them.
Outofstep
funny, something you said to me is very similar to something my patriarchal blessing says…….My bishop did say something about me going to counseling some time back to see what I was doing that made him so mad—i wasn’t going to take the blame for his abuse. I was going to counseling when we moved into this ward–but had to quit when I could no longer afford it–and we lost our insurance when my husband lost his job. There is a really good LDS counselor in our area that does not work for the church. My former stake was aware of him and would recommend him to people. This stake seems to just be catching on about this guy. My bishop did mention something about him a couple of months ago—but I was feeling a little burned out about counseling at the time.
I guess I could ask my bishop what is more important right now, getting counseling or paying my tithing.
momto11 wrote:I guess I could ask my bishop what is more important right now, getting counseling or paying my tithing.
If it’s a decision between the health and survival of your family, and paying a full tithe …
I wouldn’t even bother trying to manipulate my Bishop with those kinds of questions-as-statements. I would take care of the problems myself. He isn’t going to solve your marriage and family problems. You have to dig yourself out with whatever means The Lord has already “blessed” you with.
I hope that I did not come across as saying that you are to blame for his behavior. That was not my intention AT ALL.
Abusive people are responsible for their own actions. Also, you cannot change his behavior, only he can decide to change.
Counseling for yourself could help you learn ways to respond to him, or ways to not internalize his hurtful outbursts. But again, only he can change himself.
If he never gets well, and he continues down a destructive path you may not have a choice to stay with him….but with children, your lives are forever intertwined. You need some professional help to learn how to cope with all of this.
Your children deserve to know that this is not how marriage should be – else they will grow up to have the same problems. They do, however, have a mom that finds marriage something worth fighting for. If, in the end, it doesn’t work you know that you did all you could. And so will your kids.
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