Getting My Son Back On Track

[Anonymous]

I could really use some advice regarding my teenage son. He is at that age where he is growing his own testimony. While he had typical teenage issues and question up to this point, none of them made me worried about him. He made eagle at 14 and he waned to go to Church, Scouts, Youth, a Mission and the Temple. He has been on track to earn his Duty to God, and talked about going on a mission. However, in August of 2015 something happened that has changed this.

We were in the car together and I like talk radio, so it was on a local news station. All of a sudden the news guy announced that his Young Men’s President, brother-in-law to the Bishop, had two warrants out for his arrest. This person is a local politician, so it made the news. Mind you they are only Class A Misdemeanors, but they are of a sexual nature. So when the Boy Scouts found out they revoked his membership. Several people at my work also knew him, and knew I know him, so they asked me about what I knew (which was nothing). They wanted ideas on how to removed from the local youth soccer club leadership.

This was obviously upsetting to my son. Mind you, he has never really been impressed with this YM’s President that much. It’s not that he dislikes him, but he doesn’t feel that his needs and wants are respected at all. My son says the YM’s President only cares about playing sports and having fun. My son is all about advancing in Scouts and Duty to God. They are nice to each other, but let’s just say, my son hasn’t been impressed with this YM’s President leadership.

However, the issue that really seems to be causing a crisis of faith with my son is what didn’t happen. This person has not stepped down, nor was he released from being Young Men’s President by his Brother-in-law Bishop. He insists that the accusations are false, and will not do so to prove his point. He even takes the Scouts on campoust, despite the BSA revoking his membership (a violation of our LDS/BSA charters)

Did he do it? I don’t know. I am not his judge, nor am I the Bishop. It really doesn’t matter to me. My reason for coming here is not how to get him released, it for advice for what to do with my son.

In response, my son has become very disillusioned at the church. He has asked several times if the only reason this person is still YM’s president is because of who he knows. He questions if worthiness is even important. He has lost all respect for this person and no longer wants to participation in any Youth activities. The longer this person remains YM’s President, them more apathetic my son has become with his church activity. For the first time in a long time, he had the chance to do baptism at the temple this weekend. He doesn’t want to go and I get the impression it is because of who is going. He now talks about going directly to collage and waiting on a Mission. I’m scared.

Since August I have been telling him several things. 1. We do not know the truth, nor do we know why he wasn’t released, so we shouldn’t let it effect our worthiness. 2. It really isn’t our place to decided if he is worthy to be YM’s President, it’s the bishop. 3. Using the mote in the eye parable, I try to explain that we need to focus on our own issues and not this person’s. 4. I’ve explained that even church leaders are human and can make mistakes, but that doesn’t mean the gospel isn’t true. They are two separate things.

It hasn’t helped. I’ve watched this Young Man go from wishing there were two Wednesday nights a week for Scouts, to not caring if he pass the sacrament or go on a mission anymore. I don’t know what to do anymore. Talking to the Bishop isn’t a good idea, as my Son feels he is letting this man get away with it because he is family. I think if the Bishop called him in for a talk, it would only drive him further away.

I thought about talking to the Stake President, but my goal is not to get this guy in trouble, it’s to get my son back on track. I don’t see how that is going to do it and will only lead to a feeling that we jump over the bishop because we were mad at him.

So what do you all think I can do to help my son see that we cannot let other dictate our faith? Both myself and my wife are out of ideas? I worry that he will become the child who leaves the church at 18. I want to help him get back on track.

[Anonymous]

ARTEST4ECHO wrote:

Since August I have been telling him several things. 1. We do not know the truth, nor do we know why he wasn’t released, so we shouldn’t let it effect our worthiness. 2. It really isn’t our place to decided if he is worthy to be YM’s President, it’s the bishop. 3. Using the mote in the eye parable, I try to explain that we need to focus on our own issues and not this person’s. 4. I’ve explained that even church leaders are human and can make mistakes, but that doesn’t mean the gospel isn’t true. They are two separate things.

This is good advice.

Your son is at the age to start thinking and wondering about stuff he probably just never questioned before. Sooner or later, they go through that and it is good to have loving coaches to help through it.

The hard part is fearing if the kids make wrong choices and go off the deep end.

My advice is not to let those fears take over. If you know your son, you know he is smart and a good kid, you will need to let him off the proverbial leash and let him take some time to explore, while sticking close to talk and guide him.

With my teenagers, it was setting boundaries for them, but letting them work within those boundaries. I gave in on some things. If they attended church with the family on Sunday, then their weekly activity could be theirs to choose to go or not when they didn’t like the leaders or were being picked on by others in the classes. But they had to go to church on Sunday.

They were allowed to be upset at leaders, but they were expected to always be respectful.

There were times I felt uncomfortable with over-zealous leaders that I told the ward leaders they would not interview my children without me present. THat was for a specific issue…but the message it sent my teenagers was that I was there for them and cared for them…even when they tested me and wanted me to let them have all freedoms…which was just immature on their part.

I remember when my son told me, “I don’t know if I believe in God. I mean…look at all the mess in the world and in the church. And our scout master was arrested for distributing kiddie porn!” It was a messed up time he saw others are human and we can’t trust others unconditionally.

If it helps, what my son has learned is that there are bad people in the church and there are some better people outside the church than we ever meet inside the church. It is a life lesson not to judge, for good or bad…can’t assume all mormons are trustworthy, and can’t assume all non-members need the church.

My son went through some rough years not wanting church at all…but he now has a strong testimony and is preparing to serve a mission next year when he graduates.

Trust your kids are good and smart. They will figure things out. But stay close to them. They can be easily influenced by friends at school…and so they need to continue to have good influences in their lives…which doesn’t sound like your YM Pres.

However, having been accused of things in my past that I had nothing to do with…I am very hesitant to grab a pitchfork and join the accusing mob until I see if things charges are really true. When our scoutmaster went to jail…he deserved it. But…we don’t always know details on every case, and that is something your son can learn from. How does God see it? How does God want him to process things and have his heart be loving but protective?

It’s hard when the kids start growing up and seeing things for themselves. Love them through it. Give him space to figure it out. Don’t let fear overtake love and long-term perspectives. Do let them make mistakes if they learn from it.

[Anonymous]

Years ago, a beautiful young woman was raped and killed in a small town where we lived. The last person to see her was a bartender who served her a couple drinks. He was a friend who had taken her out on dates a few times. The bartender was accused. No evidence was found, he was released, but the community was sure that he had gotten away with murder. He was harassed by the local police and by the local community. It was bad enough that the bartender eventually moved to another state. The local police contacted the police of his new community, and the harassment continued. This went on for years. He eventually committed suicide.

A few years later, someone else admitted to the murder and DNA matches confirmed it.

The bartender had been completely innocent.

I didn’t know any of the people personally, but living in that community, I followed the story. It has made me think long and hard about accusations and our laws that state that we are innocent — UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY. Maybe this could be a really good life lesson about the legal system, how it works, and why it works the way it does.

Your son has decided this man is guilty just because he was charged. That isn’t fair and it isn’t kind. Let the system work.

[Anonymous]

It isn’t that he doesn’t understand that everyone is innocent until proven guilty. However, he is old enough to understand that when a person is accused of a sexual crime, it really isn’t appropriate to have a position over children, until the situation is resolved. This is the reason the Boy Scouts removed him from Scouting. They know he is only “accused”, but until such time the issue is resolved, he really has no place being in Scouting. For example, would you want your son’s School Teacher to be under indictment for a sexual crime, but still working at a School. I think he is absolutely right, but I don’t tell him that. I try to help him learn the lesson that we should only allow ourselves to decided what we believe.

However, at his age, he feels that this man is getting special treatment because his brother-in-law is bishop. It’s the special treatment thing that has him upset. At his age, alot of things are all about “fairness”. He knows that if I were to be arrested, I would immediately be released from my calling. This make him wonders what makes it “right” that this man, who he already didn’t think was helping him, should not be only because his brother-in-law is the bishop.

Again, I am not here to debate if he did it or not. I know that we do not know the truth, nor do we know why he wasn’t released. I know it isn’t my or my son’s place to pass judgement. I know he may be innocent. Nor will I let it effect my worthiness. My issue is how to keep someone who is at a vulnerable age from having his testimony damages because of unequal treatment he sees going on.

[Anonymous]

Being someone who knows of too many instances where a person in church leadership was engaging in sexually abusive activities, and could have been stopped, but was still allowed to maintain their position of power because people gave said individual “the benefit of the doubt” and thought “innocent until proven guilty” I feel I’m leaning the other way than other people on this board, especially with the family connection probably being what is keeping him in his leadership role. I feel the situation is inappropriate and more action to be taken to insure this person is not in a position of power over youth until this is resolved. However, as you specified that’s not the kind of feedback you’re looking for, ARTEST4ECHO, I’ll move on.

Unfortunately, these kinds of situations occur often–what I’m trying to say is, people often behave badly in the church. If your son, who sounds like a great kid, didn’t have to confront this now, he’d have to confront this later in life–this I’m sure of. See this as a natural evolution of his testimony. His testimony is not always going to be the same. It is going to change, and that is the way things should be.

Try to think of this situation not “damaging” his testimony but molding it–put it through the ‘refiner’s” fire. Try not to let worry and fear influence your interactions with him in the church. Try not to let yourself get wrapped up in everything that could happen down the road–will he serve a mission–will he leave the church–will he not get married in the temple, etc. That’s projecting big fears. At the core, this church is about God’s teachings of returning to him. Things happen on God’s own time, and for each child of God, that might be different. You son is experiencing a situation which is causing him to question the Church and the gospel young, when easily the same feelings could have hit him on his mission (with a terrible mission branch president), or right after getting married, or even 30 years down the line.

Tough situation. I don’t have the answers. I say, try to help your son find appreciation for the basics of the gospel (the focus on the saving aspects of the gospel versus the laundry list of things we do in the Church) and show him that you love him no matter what.

Also, curious question, why won’t you tell your son that you agree with him about the mistake? I ask this in sincerity, what is your reasoning? Growing up, my mother was very open with me about the misteps she felt church leaders made (not to say she was overly negative, here). This helped me separate the gospel vs. people in the Church. Because of it, when a Bishop or Stake Leader was a jerk, that never impacted my testimony. And we know there are a lot of mistakes made by local leaders in this church. I’m not saying you have to do this, but why do you feel it necessary to defend the situation to your son if you actually agree that somethings wrong with it?

[Anonymous]

The toughest thing I have found about parenting teens is that they are so idealistic and lack life experience to bring them back to reality. As a result, they can be fairly hardline and zealous. I was the same. I was deeply offended at the behavior of my bishop when I was 17. He had a temper, he was prideful, he shared confidential information when he shouldn’t have. In short, he was human. But I got the notion into my head that the church comprised of the members, and the members were hypocritical from the bishop on down. I also had a seminary teacher tell me that if I didn’t accept polygamy, I couldn’t be a Mormon. That was obviously a pretty hardline thing to say, and for an ideological teen, it was the kind of thinking I was used to anyway.

In short, your son’s behavior is normal for teens. Life experience will teach him that people are almost universally hypocrites and lacking in wisdom. Something that spoke to me at that age was the Gestalt Prayer:

Quote:

I do my thing and you do your thing.

I am not in this world to live up to your expectations,

And you are not in this world to live up to mine.

You are you, and I am I,

and if by chance we find each other, it’s beautiful.

If not, it can’t be helped.

Unfortunately, what happens for teens is that they are quickly becoming disillusioned with the adults and how the adults are running the world. As a child, they unquestioningly relied on that adult world to care for them, and the adults were looked up to both literally and figuratively. Teens begin to see us for what we really are. And they vow they won’t give up their ideals like we did.

Maybe you’ll remember this song by Carly Simon about the disillusionment of becoming an adult:

Quote:

That’s The Way I’ve Always Heard It Should Be

My father sits at night with no lights on

His cigarette glows in the dark.

The living room is still;

I walk by, no remark.

I tiptoe past the master bedroom where

My mother reads her magazines.

I hear her call sweet dreams,

But I forgot how to dream.

My friends from college they’re all married now;

They have their houses and their lawns.

They have their silent noons,

Tearful nights, angry dawns.

Their children hate them for the things they’re not;

They hate themselves for what they are-

And yet they drink, they laugh,

Close the wound, hide the scar.

[Anonymous]

First, thank you all for your comments. While the parent in me still wants that magic answer to how to him out of his apathy (that probably don’t exist), everything that has been said has given me some new perspective. I’m really glad to see that I’m not the lone parent with problems like this.

Hawkgrrrl, you are absolutely right, my son, like many kids, is definitely idealistic and lack life experience to bring him back to reality, and is hard-line and zealous. That is the issue in a nut shell. He hasn’t yet learned that life doesn’t always allow you to be hard-line and zealous and be happy at the same time, and that is isn’t always your place to enforce the rules. So when they are broken, you shouldn’t think that the entire system is broken.

Heber13, I agree and I don’t want to be that over bearing parent who demands perfection out of my children. I try to give him the freedom to make his own choices, especially given is track record. Like going to the temple this weekend. I did tell him I was disappointed that he didn’t feel it was important enough to go, especially since he wasn’t doing anything else, but I’m not going to demand he go. However, I admit that sometimes I worry that I’ve swung the other way to much sometime. That I should tell him he must go, so he will have the chance to feel the spirit the temple brings, so it would jog him out of his apathy. I don’t know.

university, while my experiences up until now regarding person in church leadership maintain their position of power because people gave them “the benefit of the doubt” has not been due to sexual issues, I have had other experience where leaders make some major errors in judgment that damages the faith of many people. It is still my option that what they did should have had them removed from their calling. So I agree with you, it happens a little too often in my opinion. I think that is why I wouldn’t make a good Bishop. I would probably get in trouble for have too many disciplinary councils.

As to your question as to why I haven’t told him I agree with him, I guess it’s because I think it will cause more harm the good. With my son, being hard-line and zealous, I think that if I straight out said “Your right”, it would cement his position in his mind. That worthiness isn’t important, only who you know. Then nothing I say or do, will help him understands that leaders are human and still make mistake, but the gospel is still true. I learned that lesson the hard way, and so I don’t want him to also. So my goal since August has been to find a way to teach him not let others dictate his faith. If we let others mistakes change our faith in the Gospel, we are doing a disservice to ourselves. I have indirectly told him that the YM’s President and Bishop made a mistake, as I have always referred to it as a mistake, but my focus has been to help him move past that and not let it change who he is. However, I feel like I’ve failed in that, and that is why I came here looking for idea.

[Anonymous]

Quote:

Again, I am not here to debate if he did it or not. I know that we do not know the truth, nor do we know why he wasn’t released. I know it isn’t my or my son’s place to pass judgement. I know he may be innocent. Nor will I let it effect my worthiness. My issue is how to keep someone who is at a vulnerable age from having his testimony damages because of unequal treatment he sees going on.

So sorry, I didn’t mean to offend by my focus on the accusation rather than your son’s response.

The unequal treatment. The Boss’s son. The CEO’s daughter. The surgeon’s cousin. The pope’s illegitimate child .. Every ward, every stake, every organization, every company. Nepotism and unequal treatment. Sometimes, I wonder where the myth started that treatment within any organization involving humans was supposed to be equal or fair. It’s not.

As an accused person, this YMP should have had the wisdom to skip the camp out. The Bishop-family connection makes the entire situation a little dirty. It doesn’t reflect well on the church.

Too often, all I can do is walk away from certain offensive situations while muttering, “Not my monkeys .. Not my circus.”

But not this time.

In this situation, because the actions of the bishop are reflecting poorly on the integrity of Church, I would talk to the SP and voice your concern. As a PR issue, this has the possibility of being a nightmare for the Church. Think of the headline, “Local LDS Bishop Allowed Pediphile Full Access AFTER Indictment”. Unfortunately, the SP would probably be more concerned about the bad press than your son’s FC, but the SP intervention could take care of both at the same time.

Best wishes. Let us know this plays out. This is a hard experience, but an experience full of potentially valuable life lessons for your son.

[Anonymous]

I’m sorry if my word suggested I was offend. I was not. I have had that issue before, so I try to work on not letting that happen. I apologize. I was just trying to make sure that the focus was not if he did or didn’t do it, but how to get my son to learn the lesson you just posted.

amateurparent wrote:

The unequal treatment. The Boss’s son. The CEO’s daughter. The surgeon’s cousin. The pope’s illegitimate child .. Every ward, every stake, every organization, every company. Nepotism and unequal treatment. Sometimes, I wonder where the myth started that treatment within any organization involving humans was supposed to be equal or fair. It’s not.

You hit the nail on the head. My son hasn’t learned that lesson yet, and I fear it is dragging him into this spiritual apathy. At 18 I had to learn a lesson for a similar but different reason, but it caused similar feeling to what he is feeling. It cost me 3 years of activity, where I made some really bad choices. The lord woke me up one day by putting someone in my path, but I could have very easily been that guy who left the church at 18 and never looked back. I look at those days with regret. I don’t want him to make my mistake, which is why I’m probably just being overly worried.

As to going to the Stake President, I’ve thought about that and I’m on the fence. I know for a fact he knows about it. First, again it was on the news (both TV and radio). Additionally, I know he received a letter from the Boy Scout telling him that this person’s membership was revoked. Lastly his son is in my son’s quorum. So, I kind of think that he and the Bishop already decided it was a non-issue. I may be wrong, but again, I’m not looking to be that guy who runs in and demands that he be removed.

I agree the PR would be bad, if the news got out. However, the issue is not with kids, but adults so “Pediphile” isn’t the work they would use. However, Ironically I think the bad press would be even worst for this SP then you thought. His is running for political office himself right now. So the headline would be something like “Local LDS Stake President and Candidate Allowed Rapist Full Access to children after Indictment”. You are probably right that the SP would probably be more concerned about the bad press than my son.

[Anonymous]

First, welcome, ARTEST4ECHO. It’s nice to ‘meet’ you.

My suggestion would be to focus on what is good, rather than dealing with what is bad. That’s the basis of how I have (at least so far) been able to stay in the Church even though I am a total non-believer. IMO, you cannot solve or lessen how your son feels about this situation by direct answering. IMO, what you need to do is fill the rest of the discussion, thought, time, with things that uplift. He loved scouting. Great. Right now, the love and the fond memories are buried by this one concern. Get the good stuff out from under this shadow and let it flourish.

In some ways, this reflects my view of sin and repentance. The Church sees sin as wrong; something to be avoided at all costs. The Church’s view is that repentance is about cleansing past sins. It’s as if the purpose of our lives is to be free of sin. But to me, our lives are about accomplishing what we see as important; sin is nothing more than the collection of things that keep us from reaching our potential. Repentance isn’t about ‘cleansing’ any failure, but about putting our eyes on where we want to be and then starting out in that direction. Sin is a thing of the past, repentance is us looking forward. The Church sees repentance as looking back and correcting what is already in the past. I see it entirely as reaching for a better future. So, the Church has somewhat conditioned us to focus on errors and to try to correct them. IMO, we should understand that errors a part of life. Our life. The lives of others. Our society, our country, our Church. But what we need to spend our time on is what we are striving for, rather than what we are struggling against.

Bottom line. I think it would be helpful for anyone in a situation like that to recognize when something strikes a dissonant chord with us, and then to look for what resonates and fill our lives with that.

[Anonymous]

Thank you “On Own Now”. Again, another good and different perspective for me to think about. In a way, I’ve been trying to do this (i.e. focus on what is good). I make sure he knows about the different activities available to him and make sure he knows that I understand what he is going through, but that the things he is missing out on are the good things he loves doing.

However, I’m definitely a pessimist, so I’m sure I could do better. I will have to do some introspective thinking on your suggestion.

[Anonymous]

ARTEST4ECHO wrote:

As to your question as to why I haven’t told him I agree with him, I guess it’s because I think it will cause more harm the good. With my son, being hard-line and zealous, I think that if I straight out said “Your right”, it would cement his position in his mind. That worthiness isn’t important, only who you know. Then nothing I say or do, will help him understands that leaders are human and still make mistake, but the gospel is still true. I learned that lesson the hard way, and so I don’t want him to also. So my goal since August has been to find a way to teach him not let others dictate his faith. If we let others mistakes change our faith in the Gospel, we are doing a disservice to ourselves. I have indirectly told him that the YM’s President and Bishop made a mistake, as I have always referred to it as a mistake, but my focus has been to help him move past that and not let it change who he is. However, I feel like I’ve failed in that, and that is why I came here looking for idea.

Maybe he needs to feel you understand that his question/concern is valid. It is valid, and it’s likely true. Maybe he needs to hear you say that, not because you want to tear down the church or disrespect leadership but because he needs to know you understand and share the concern.

[Anonymous]

When horrible stupid things happen in the church, too often we are hesitant to be truthful about the human weaknesses that led to the actions.

Quote:

That which can be destroyed by the truth, should be. -P.C. Hodgell, writer and professor (b. 1951)

I came across that quote this morning and it just struck me on so many levels. We talk about integrity and honesty, but when it comes to the church — whether it is history, modern culture, politics, or whatever — we hunker down and make vague non-comments. Honesty sometimes becomes less of a priority.

Sounds like your son could use some validation for his feelings. His feelings are justified. Maybe it would be best if you allow him to own them. He has lost the respect of the YMP who he didn’t have a relationship with. It would be more significant event if he lost respect for you.

[Anonymous]

When I had my faith crisis I was nearly 30. I had many phone conversations with my Mom about God and how I felt Him to be so much more loving than our rules bound culture portrayed Him to be. I was mourning at the time and my grief was all wound up in it. My mom listened and would often say that she thought I was right or had a good point about xyz. I later found out that she had asked some church representatives what to do with an adult child that “thinks deeply” about issues. I knew that she was worried about me but it didn’t seem to show in our conversations.

Much later – when I was in a better place, still with doubt but much more comfortable moving forward in the face of unanswered questions – I asked her why she never freaked out about my doubts and questions. She essentially told me that she always knew that I had a strong heart and a good head on my shoulders – she always had confidence that I would find my way.

That has meant the world to me.

Good luck. Parenting is hard and we all make mistakes.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Roy for sharing.

As I have started looking at least stepping away from the church (even before this last week) it has been hitting me just how much I am placing at risk. One is telling my mom. She won’t disown me or anything, but I think she thinks I am her “best” son when it comes to the church (i.e. held the highest positions). I have a good relationship with her, but I KNOW it is going to hurt her. Even just telling her that “I am not active and have taken a step away from the church” will hurt her.

Knowing that your mom didn’t “over react” is helpful to know that is a possibility.

BTW – what answer did she get about how to deal with a “thinker” of a son?

[Author]

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