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I did go to Priesthood Session at my local stake center last night. It did help me off the ledge. I particularly liked Elder Hallstrom’s talk, because it meshed well with my own views. I felt uplifted when I left. For a brief time, that helped blot out the Saturday Morning Session. I just want to wrap this up by saying thank you… Thank you Ray… Thank you DarkJedi… Thank you StayLDS Community. I’m low right now. I feel shaken in a way I haven’t felt for a long time. It’s incredibly warming, reassuring, and helpful to have the support of the people here. I’m grateful for you all. Thank you. Love you. On Own Now wrote:I just want to wrap this up by saying thank you… Thank you Ray… Thank you DarkJedi… Thank you StayLDS Community. I’m low right now. I feel shaken in a way I haven’t felt for a long time. It’s incredibly warming, reassuring, and helpful to have the support of the people here. I’m grateful for you all.
Hugs! Some days are hard. I am glad you can feel comfortable enough to share the pain of your heart here. Glad you feel better, but those hard days that are hard and the feelings that are so real are painful. I am glad you found more peace at Priesthood session.
Good thoughts on here… thanks. But… spaghetti? No, DarkJedi, spaghetti is NEVER better the next day.
On Own Now wrote:I just want to wrap this up by saying thank you… Thank you Ray… Thank you DarkJedi… Thank you StayLDS Community. I’m low right now. I feel shaken in a way I haven’t felt for a long time. It’s incredibly warming, reassuring, and helpful to have the support of the people here. I’m grateful for you all.
I understand OON. Some things are beyond out control, although when I calm down and meditate I understand that an authoritarian person will see god an an authoritarian way those I’m his own image as well as has been taught for millennia by nearly all authoritarian teachers. I realize nothing new here. So I find it ironic that a talk talking about making god in your image is itself making god in his own image. But obviously that’s all one can do ironically since there is no real source from which to go to understand what gods image is because it’s all transcribe by men and the wording shows.
Which is why I transcribe a god more loving, because to say god is a jealous angry god who demands obedience misses the point. Even if it were true I would not worship such a god no matter the consequence. I would worship a god based on the qualities I like that being the world and also for myself a happy and joyful fruit bearing life.
Which is why his talk. Matters to me, if god was really like that then I must by my own conscious disobey him to stand for what I believe is right even if I suffer consequences to any degree. It’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make to fight for goodness and good laws to produce positive fruit in this life and not suffer for far away future promises.
Given my history I am concerned for the happiness of others and there welfare here on earth. I’m happy there were loving messages including from TSM.
Volunteering for rape, domestic violence and animal abuse I see a strong need for more compassion and less asserting control over others regardless of authority. It’s strongly needed and I hope we can each do our part. I believe despite that aggressiveness is the most outwardly visible in any area or institution of life.
Love is more quite and it’s as obvious so must be daughter with more diligence.
I think there is much love to leverage in the church and it is why I choose to try to endure a lot of the more outspoken aggressiveness in the church. The good people will be quite usually and just swallow. They need help and reinforcement because they aren’t as visible.
Anyway I wish and hope for you happiness and do what is right for your own health, short and long term.
God bless.
P.S. I have not said so but thank you for your many contributions here. They have and do help a lot.
OON, I also want to thank you for your many thoughtful and helpful comments here. I’m sorry that Holland’s talk did so much damage for you. In the months that I have been visiting this board I don’t think I have ever seen you say any words of negativity or complaint. I always look forward to your comments. You have a lot of wisdom to share. Please let us know how you are doing and if there is anything we can do. Thanks again… to everyone for the well wishes. I am doing better about it. Next week sometime, I’ll probably sit down and watch Sunday Morning Session, as the consensus seems to be that that was a good one. I’m still unhappy about the Kingdom of Anger talk as well as the Straight (and Narrow) talk by Elder Andersen, but I’ve spent a lot of time focusing on what I DO believe. I’m working on accepting that it’s just wonderful that I don’t believe the way they do. I thank God that when I speak of Jesus’ love, I don’t have to do it with a scowl on my face. I’m grateful that I can advocate for transgression (aka gay marriage) in others, because it’s not transgression for them. My ‘God’ is a God of love, patience, peace, not a bitter God of division and anger. My ‘God’ is an uplifting God, a God who enlightens, a God who builds up… a God who offers a ‘way’ for us to be our best selves. I agree that Jesus shook things up… that he was controversial… but to me, it was for the opposite purpose from what was described by JRH; it wasn’t to make us mindless obedient soldiers, but to make us introspective about ourselves and compassionate toward others; to help us act, not by rules, but out of love for God and for neighbors.
I think I will come through this stronger than I was before in what I believe.
Thank you all. Thank you. I love this community.
On Own Now wrote:Thanks again… to everyone for the well wishes. I am doing better about it. Next week sometime, I’ll probably sit down and watch Sunday Morning Session, as the consensus seems to be that that was a good one. I’m still unhappy about the Kingdom of Anger talk as well as the Straight (and Narrow) talk by Elder Andersen, but I’ve spent a lot of time focusing on what I DO believe.
I’m working on accepting that it’s just wonderful that I don’t believe the way they do. I thank God that when I speak of Jesus’ love, I don’t have to do it with a scowl on my face. I’m grateful that I can advocate for transgression (aka gay marriage) in others, because it’s not transgression for them. My ‘God’ is a God of love, patience, peace, not a bitter God of division and anger. My ‘God’ is an uplifting God, a God who enlightens, a God who builds up… a God who offers a ‘way’ for us to be our best selves. I agree that Jesus shook things up… that he was controversial… but to me, it was for the opposite purpose from what was described by JRH; it wasn’t to make us mindless obedient soldiers, but to make us introspective about ourselves and compassionate toward others; to help us act, not by rules, but out of love for God and for neighbors.
I think I will come through this stronger than I was before in what I believe.
Thank you all. Thank you. I love this community.
This is a great post. I like your image of God.
On Own Now wrote:I’m working on accepting that it’s just wonderful that I don’t believe the way they do. I thank God that when I speak of Jesus’ love, I don’t have to do it with a scowl on my face. I’m grateful that I can advocate for transgression (aka gay marriage) in others, because it’s not transgression for them. My ‘God’ is a God of love, patience, peace, not a bitter God of division and anger. My ‘God’ is an uplifting God, a God who enlightens, a God who builds up… a God who offers a ‘way’ for us to be our best selves. I agree that Jesus shook things up… that he was controversial… but to me, it was for the opposite purpose from what was described by JRH; it wasn’t to make us mindless obedient soldiers, but to make us introspective about ourselves and compassionate toward others; to help us act, not by rules, but out of love for God and for neighbors.
I think I will come through this stronger than I was before in what I believe.
Thank you all. Thank you. I love this community.
I’m with you OON, 100%!
I didn’t watch any of conference live. I have been going through my own faith transition and have taken a hiatus from going to church while I figure things out. I am at a place where I am getting ready to go back, though not necessarily every week or all three hours. I decided to go back and pick through some talks from this GC to watch to start reconnecting, and the first one I chose to watch was JRH’s talk, because I have so often found him to be comforting and connecting and inspiring in past talks.
This talk really threw me for a loop. Talk about the wrong one to first see when dipping my foot back in the pond after a 3-month break. This forum was what got me through the feelings of shame and disconnection I felt afterwards. I still don’t think I have fully recovered from the feeling of “Who am I to think for myself at all…please tell me what to do, sir, so I don’t go to hell.”
I think I will need to start participating in this forum more to work through feelings. I really do want to stay LDS, but I am heading for Stage 5. I am not interested in going back to Stage 3. But I am very interested in contributing to the well being of the world, including the LDS church. If anything, what I have most learned is how important faith and staying connected to God is to me. But I never previously realized just how few things of truth that I actually possess for myself. There is so much information taught as doctrine in the church, but when it comes down to it, all I really know for myself is:
1) There is someone up there that communicates with me and loves me and uplifts me
2) Faith is a real principle that has the power to access divine powers beyond myself
3) There is divinity in the LDS church and I have experienced it
Everything else is up for grabs at this point, and it is an uncomfortable and shameful and exciting journey to work through this. I couldn’t go back to Stage 3 and maintain any integrity with myself…or with my connection to God. I just wish the fear of divine disapproval and loss of eternal blessings wasn’t a recurring feeling that keeps thrusting itself into my consciousness just when I am feeling really happy. It doesn’t help that I have a diagnosed mood disorder and also grew up with a father who was very shameful and taught me to not trust myself, but only trust in unquestionable authority figures…namely, himself and ‘priesthood leaders.’
thalmar, Welcome to StayLDS!
I’m glad you have found this community to help you through these issues, just as it has helped me and many others here. I look forward to hearing more from you. I would suggest heading over to the ‘Introductions’ board and posting there, so that everyone will see it.
There are many here who share your experiences and beliefs.
FWIW, as I’m sure you already saw, the JRH speach (Kingdom of Anger) was a hard pill to swallow for many here. I think that ultimately, it has helped me to set it aside as the ramblings of someone who has apparently lost it, and to use it as an opportunity to develop more clearly exactly what I believe. I’ve spoken to others, some like us, some still all the way in the Church, who didn’t like it either. But I still like my view of God/Jesus and I’ve been able to lean heavily on that in the last week. I’ve liked JRH in the past, but I’ve now moved him into the ‘nutjob’ column and am prepared to move on without him. The talk that soothed me later that day was Elder Hallstrom in Priesthood Session, and I can recommend that as a second talk to listen to as you try the GC experience.
Most importantly, just know that you have many kindred spirits here.
thalmar wrote:I didn’t watch any of conference live. I have been going through my own faith transition and have taken a hiatus from going to church while I figure things out. I am at a place where I am getting ready to go back, though not necessarily every week or all three hours.
I decided to go back and pick through some talks from this GC to watch to start reconnecting, and the first one I chose to watch was JRH’s talk, because I have so often found him to be comforting and connecting and inspiring in past talks.
This talk really threw me for a loop. Talk about the wrong one to first see when dipping my foot back in the pond after a 3-month break. This forum was what got me through the feelings of shame and disconnection I felt afterwards. I still don’t think I have fully recovered from the feeling of “Who am I to think for myself at all…please tell me what to do, sir, so I don’t go to hell.”
I think I will need to start participating in this forum more to work through feelings. I really do want to stay LDS, but I am heading for Stage 5. I am not interested in going back to Stage 3. But I am very interested in contributing to the well being of the world, including the LDS church. If anything, what I have most learned is how important faith and staying connected to God is to me. But I never previously realized just how few things of truth that I actually possess for myself. There is so much information taught as doctrine in the church, but when it comes down to it, all I really know for myself is:
1) There is someone up there that communicates with me and loves me and uplifts me
2) Faith is a real principle that has the power to access divine powers beyond myself
3) There is divinity in the LDS church and I have experienced it
Everything else is up for grabs at this point, and it is an uncomfortable and shameful and exciting journey to work through this. I couldn’t go back to Stage 3 and maintain any integrity with myself…or with my connection to God. I just wish the fear of divine disapproval and loss of eternal blessings wasn’t a recurring feeling that keeps thrusting itself into my consciousness just when I am feeling really happy. It doesn’t help that I have a diagnosed mood disorder and also grew up with a father who was very shameful and taught me to not trust myself, but only trust in unquestionable authority figures…namely, himself and ‘priesthood leaders.’
Welcome talmar! I can understand a lot of that from personal experience. It appears our stories intertwine in a lot if areas.
It’s said that Shane can be taught while young and nearly impossible to shake afterwords. The brain is just doing its own thing with what it’s taught decades and decades later. It’s still hard to shake the guilt of even approaching my boss at work to interrupt him to give him the reports he asked for at the time he asked for them. It’s automatic and I can’t turn it off, only try to consciously shake it every time it automatically happens. So it’s very draining constant mental exercise. I find myself exhausted from it many days. Going to church and hearing talks like the one you mentioned just exasperate the situation tremendously to the point I can’t hold in the inner conflict anymore and start to cry(which brings more shame).
In any case, I try to redirect my emotions into positivity through service to others including the LDS church.
There is a lot of good to be found there just it’s an emotional roller coaster that I try to smoothen out. Outside of the church I’m completely happy and stable, inside it’s a roller coaster rude so I struggle to stay.
Connecting and meaningful communication with people trying to serve is what at least in my heart is what it is all about.
Welcome to the forums. I hope we can contribute positively to you and find that which you seek.
thalmar wrote:I didn’t watch any of conference live. I have been going through my own faith transition and have taken a hiatus from going to church while I figure things out. I am at a place where I am getting ready to go back, though not necessarily every week or all three hours.
I decided to go back and pick through some talks from this GC to watch to start reconnecting, and the first one I chose to watch was JRH’s talk, because I have so often found him to be comforting and connecting and inspiring in past talks.
This talk really threw me for a loop. Talk about the wrong one to first see when dipping my foot back in the pond after a 3-month break. This forum was what got me through the feelings of shame and disconnection I felt afterwards. I still don’t think I have fully recovered from the feeling of “Who am I to think for myself at all…please tell me what to do, sir, so I don’t go to hell.”
I think I will need to start participating in this forum more to work through feelings. I really do want to stay LDS, but I am heading for Stage 5. I am not interested in going back to Stage 3. But I am very interested in contributing to the well being of the world, including the LDS church. If anything, what I have most learned is how important faith and staying connected to God is to me. But I never previously realized just how few things of truth that I actually possess for myself. There is so much information taught as doctrine in the church, but when it comes down to it, all I really know for myself is:
1) There is someone up there that communicates with me and loves me and uplifts me
2) Faith is a real principle that has the power to access divine powers beyond myself
3) There is divinity in the LDS church and I have experienced it
Everything else is up for grabs at this point, and it is an uncomfortable and shameful and exciting journey to work through this. I couldn’t go back to Stage 3 and maintain any integrity with myself…or with my connection to God. I just wish the fear of divine disapproval and loss of eternal blessings wasn’t a recurring feeling that keeps thrusting itself into my consciousness just when I am feeling really happy. It doesn’t help that I have a diagnosed mood disorder and also grew up with a father who was very shameful and taught me to not trust myself, but only trust in unquestionable authority figures…namely, himself and ‘priesthood leaders.’
Welcome to the forum.
I like your 3-point list. They seem more than enough as a foundation.
Something occurred to me while reading around online. As you all probably know, Tom Phillips, a former Stake President and Area Executive Secretary, tried to take President Monson and the church to court for fraud last month. Just 4 weeks ago.
Jeffrey R. Holland set TP apart as a stake president. That also probably means he was one of the people who felt inspired to call him. They were, apparently, friends on a first-name basis.
When TP had his initial crisis of faith, he wrote, a fairly unpleasant, letter to JRH. JRH’s letter was a passionate defense of the church and call to repentance. TP went on to publish the letters and attempted a scathing online character assassination of JRH.
When the court case happened, however ridiculous the charge was, there must have been some concern within the church leadership and a sense of responsibility on JRH’s part, given he was the one who called him to a position of higher profile and had responded to TP’s first expression of doubt and concern. Although it was rightly thrown out, if the Book of Abraham had been put on trial in front of a secular judge and legal team, it would not have fared well. It must have been a worrying time.
Elder Holland probably felt embarrassed, hurt, angry, defensive, frustrated by the public behaviour of his former friend and the way it reflected badly on him.
I know how I react when I feel attacked, betrayed, publicly criticised.
Maybe on Saturday Elder Holland simply spent 20 minutes showing us he is human. Just like the rest of us.
I’ve always tried to give people the benefit of the doubt. I’m reminded that it’s always worth considering: “
the other hand…
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