Gift of the Holy Ghost

[Alexia]

I am aware of the plasticity of the brain, the psychological phenomenon that impact beliefs, feelings and sensations. I am aware of the concept of cognitive dissonance. I thought that I was careful about the development of my beliefs, or the loss there of. In the past I experienced what is commonly known as the Spirit, A testimony and/or the Holy Ghost. Now I have lost it and want it back.

I had dealt with most doctrinal issues in my own way and worked thru most of that (though the anti-gay sentiment bothers me) but then I had an intense negative experience ( To the level of Post-Traumatic-Stress Syndrome, spiritually)

What do most of the re-committed LDS members on this site believe about the Holy Ghost? Having lost it, and then regained it? Possible?

Hanging by a Thread.

Alexia

[Anonymous]

Hi Alexia,

I’m glad you posted this question to the forums. I’m sure you will get lots of thoughtful responses. I’ll throw mine into the ring.

In the MormonStories podcasts about the ideas of James Fowler Stages of Faith, one of the guys being interviewed had a chance to talk to Dr. Fowler at the end of a lecture. I think it may have been at a Sunstone Symposium or something like that. Anyway, the answer stuck to me. It was a similar question to yours. He asked how he could find faith again, or also find the spirit. Dr. Fowler gave a very short answer and walked off: “You have to be standing on the tracks if you want to get hit by the train.”

The meaning I took from that is an active quest on our part. For a time, as a spiritual “child” of God, we were given a freebie. We had the Spirit. At some point, at least this happened to me and it seems to others, we are left on our own. It is time to stop being children of God and become adults of God (in a sense). We have to seek out those train tracks, jump on them, and find out where we can get hit by the train (the spirit).

The first thing I would recommend is to do a deep contemplation. Spend time looking deep within yourself and see if there is something you feel is separating you from God. I sooooo hate to describe this as “being worthy” because of all the negative baggage I worked hard to let go of myself. We are all loved and completely accepted by God, just as we are, all the time. That is my personal belief. But I mean something like that. Are there things in your life that make you feel like you are not accepted or comfortable with God? For me, I had to learn to be a LOT more compassionate and forgiving of myself and my flaws. That was a lesson I needed badly. Call it repentance or call it grace. I think Mormons have a hard time with especially because of our strong religious mythology of personal perfection. I had to learn to finally let go of some things and really put them in “the hands of the Savior,” to sacrifice my pride on the altar of life and accept help.

I associate feeling the Spirit with actions that I take. I would love to hear from everyone here what activities help them feel the spirit. Everyone is different. I think different people (personalities) need different things.

Here is my list:

1. Making sure to spend quiet time for meditation.

I get too involved in too many things. I get my brain over stimulated with work, computers, people, games, TV, noise noise noise. I *really* get a strong sense of the spirit when I totally unplug now and then for a long period of time. Our house is sort of in the woods. I sometimes just grab a lawn chair, go out in the back yard, and maybe just sit there for an hour or more. I try to put everything out of my mind, clear it all out, and I personally just try to feel love for God (no words, no thoughts, no formal prayers, just feeling and opening up). That is my personality though. I rejuvenate and recharge with quiet “alone time.”

2. Doing nice things for other people.

I feel the spirit when I get involved in service for other people. It could be something as mundane as helping with a move. I feel good, and I feel connected to other people in a positive way. That makes me feel the spirit like I used to remember it.

3. Studying the works of spiritual people I admire.

This could also be scripture reading. I’ve read the standard works a lot of times in the past, and haven’t done much in a few years of that in a formal way. I am planning to buy a modern Bible translation and read that book again. Lately, I have really been loving the poetry of Rumi (Jalal ad-Din Muhammed Rumi, a 13th century Persian Sufi poet, theologian and mystic). I have even been making some Indian food from recipes at the back of my book. The translator really got deep into learning about his subject, and felt the need to put Rumi-like recipes in the appendix. Anyway, I am rambling a little now. Rumi just blows me away. He really speaks to me right now. *THAT* was a guy who really “got it.” I feel the spirit strongly when reading some of his writings. That’s just me though. Everyone else has different sources of inspiration at times. Rumi wasn’t Mormon. He wasn’t even a Christian. He tapped into the Spirit of God though, that ultimate bliss of the divine, as fully and alive as anyone i’ve come across.

[Anonymous]

I agree with everything Valoel just said.

1) I love the verse that says, “Be still, and know that I am God.” In many ways, I see that as a statement of promise – reworded a bit to show what I mean:

Quote:

“Be still, and (you will) know that I am God.”

I really do think we just try too hard sometimes and forget to “be still”.

2) Identify godly characteristics and work on becoming a little better at them, one at a time, for a manageable period of time. For me, that is a month – then I move to a different characteristic. If you want to read about how I am tackling it, go to my personal blog (http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com), and read the posts in the “Resolutions” category. (right column, bottom of the column)

[Anonymous]

“You have to be standing on the tracks if you want to get hit by the train.” This is great, I get it. Though I realize that a lot of anti-mormons believe that this is an example of our rationalization of the mind/or cognitive dissonance, in which we stick around to “make it make sense” because we have so much invested in the belief. Easy to understand how one could see the metaphor as more accurate of the destruction via self deception. I want to make sure that I am not doing that.

(Can you believe this? Years back a friend had Rick Ross meet me to deprogram me from the Church).

For me, Sometimes attending church now, is like a former Gold Medalist watching the Olympics after legs are paralyzed. But because I have a strong memory of the spirit from the past, and hope that it was real beyond a mere casual knee reflex emotion, I am standing on the tracks the best I can. But for how long without the reinforcement of feeling something? Am I forsaken? That thought is scary.

I do believe that my inability to forgive a group of “church members” (at least they claim they are) is separating me from God. I think I will eventually be able to forgive, but I am still experiencing the trauma. Am I worthy? I don’t find the question offensive. All I know is that whether the gospel is true or not, I must forgive to feel whole. OK, lets get to the greater issue. Perhaps I am mad at God for not protecting me from this trauma (of having been conned out of all that I owned).Haven’t I suffered enough?

(My friends used to read my patriarchal blessing and jokingly summarize it by saying it reads “Dear Alexia, you going to meet constant hardships on earth, good luck if you make it back home. Love, Your Father in Heaven.”

I appreciate the list. And as Ray quotes “Be still and know that I am God”. I recently assessed that was very much needed (part of my aim is to quiet the pain by communication here). The trick is how to be quiet when your brain and body are still being pummeled by the negative experience. Eg. I am working 24/7 to avoid living on the streets, with my disabled mother I care for along with me. No pity party. How did other sufferers find quiet and stillness, during their frantic barn burning??

I do feel good when I am helping other people, when I can block out the thought that I need to rest. It does energize me and helps me forget Hell for a few minutes. My Hope is that I will come out spiritually stronger than ever. I can now relate to people that no longer love their spouse but work to re-create that experience. It feels like the love will never be there and then one day it does ( I don’t want to be divorced from God)

Please keep the advice coming.

Alexia

[Anonymous]

Alexia wrote:

All I know is that whether the gospel is true or not, I must forgive to feel whole. OK, lets get to the greater issue. Perhaps I am mad at God for not protecting me from this trauma (of having been conned out of all that I owned).Haven’t I suffered enough?

Alexia, I really appreciated your post. I too have had these “withdrawal symptoms” as I call it, longing for the days when I felt the Spirit was guiding me day by day, my prayers were deep and meaningful, and I felt the Lord was guiding me because of my faith.

My recent trial of faith made me feel alone. I wondered why prayers were not answered. I wondered why church bugged me and talks and lessons were hollow…I was yearning for peace and comfort and could not feel it. I started doubting everything… even allowing myself to doubt if God existed (though I don’t think I ever really doubted that, but was willing to). I was searching websites and reading and very angry at a lot of people. After a while, I stopped being upset at God, but more just stopped caring, didn’t want to go to church, didn’t care to live any commandments. Apathy set it.

I feel my first step back “into the light” was an impromptu act of service…caring for a youth who feels alone. If I felt alone in this world, how hard must it be for someone younger? I felt empathy for this young man who at such a young age with so much going for him, I wanted to spare him any loneliness I could, and just let him know I cared. It made me feel better. It connected me with another individual. My intense selfish search for the inner peace and holy spirit guiding me suddenly became less an obsession, and I just felt good, even though I couldn’t understand why or what happened. Since then, I have felt the Spirit, but differently than I have in the past.

I think my journey to doubt all things and seek truth and lose myself so I can find myself, has required me let go of my demands of God or my expectations, and instead focus on what I can do that makes me happy. Action is the key for me, and I think as I’ve taken action to attend church and participate, I have felt better. That action has helped me understand faith better. Not actions on paying tithing or going to the temple or reading the scriptures…but actions that my heart was pure and truly doing something because I wanted to show I cared about others. Love filled me, love flowed from me, and I felt more peace.

For me, I had to go back and study and really think, what was I expecting the Spirit to be when I wanted it back in my life? I realized I had some narrow expectations of how it would manifest itself to me (i.e. if I didn’t have tingling from head to toe as I have in the past, I must not be getting the Spirit). However, I’m learning the Spirit makes itself manifest in my life in very different and very subtle ways. I’m learning to broaden my understanding of spiritual manifestations.

And so, as advice to you from someone who understands your desires (I think), I ask you to answer these 2 questions:

1) What are you currently doing to show God you love Him [Her, it, or whatever your faith is in God] and what are you doing to show love to your neighbor?

2) What do you define as a spiritual manifestation in your life? IOW, what are you expecting to happen that you feel is not or is missing that you don’t feel “whole” and are expecting to fill that void?

For me, answering these questions has put me on a path of growth, that I am starting to feel more alive and energized about life than I did prior to my crisis, even more filled than I felt back to the days of my TBM little sheltered life. I have more to learn and seek to stay humble, since I can’t answer all questions or explain things very well, but know I am benefitting by my journey thus far. I don’t claim to have all the answers, but would love to hear how you can answer those questions and how you go through your journey to see if it is similar to what I’m going through. I’ll be happy to share more of what I’m learning, if it is helpful, and I understand it is just my opinion, and may or may not be of value to your situation.

I’m glad you haven’t given up, and are still seeking. God bless you.

[Anonymous]

I am gaining strength by the conversation. Thanks

Heber asked:

1) What are you currently doing to show God you love Him [Her, it, or whatever your faith is in God] and what are you doing to show love to your neighbor?

2) What do you define as a spiritual manifestation in your life? IOW, what are you expecting to happen that you feel is not or is missing that you don’t feel “whole” and are expecting to fill that void?

Answer: I hope God lives, and I so I review the love and miracles that I believe that I received in the past. How can I deny them?(My bad, I used to wonder how witnesses to the angel and coming forth of B of M could leave the Church. Unfortunately, or fortunately, Now I know). On my frantic way of surviving the financial survival that resulted from my trauma, I do try and look up from the grind and peek at nature as I run to take care of business. To appreciate nature’s beauty and creation. I also think if this spiritual death that I feel,( I keep crying this is more than I can bare), what did great people like Jesus feel? And as far as love to my neighbor, that has been something I could never stop doing. In fact part of my isolation has been that I feared my loss of spirit would in a sense be contagious. For sure I do not feel I can give, backed by power, as I did in the past. But I give what I have, which is a whole lot less.

Expectations of the spirit. Wow!?! Peace, ah hah, small voice, louder voice on occasion, freedom, passion to share the gospel, inspiration flashes, support in the journey, correction (particularly when my sacrifice is the wrong one), sensing presence and love. All the while knowing my responsibility (lack of better word) in this.

Still hoping some re-committed members can tell me if they believe the spirit is anything more than alignment with self, or the universal wave.

Grateful, So grateful

Alexia

[Anonymous]

Just an extra thought on “withdrawals”

Anyone remember an old film with Christopher Reeves called Somewhere in Time. He travels to the past and while there falls in love with Jane Seymor. The way he got to the past (his belief system) was to dress the part and remove everything from his current time. Except that he left a current penny in his pocket. So while he is in the midst of his love life, he accidentally pulls out the coin and upon seeing it, is hurled back to current time. He tries to re-create the procedure of belief. He dresses the part, lies in bed and tries his best to visualize his love of the past life and time with his love. It does not work.

His agony is mine (for now).

Alexia

[Anonymous]

Alexia wrote:

All the while knowing my responsibility (lack of better word) in this.

This comment is an echo of something I hear the brethren say sometimes: that we must live our lives in such a way as to be deserving of God’s love.

I humbly reject this concept. Our existence and the goodness in each of us is all that God “needs” to love us. He loves us unconditionally. That means (imho) that we don’t need to “earn” His love, and He won’t be disappointed by anything we do. He sent us here to learn. If we did everything perfect, what could we possibly learn? And, even if we make the same mistake over and over, He still loves us equally and unconditionally because He recognizes that we have more to learn.

This is going to sound weird but it’s a thought I’ve had since someone very close to me is going through an extremely rough patch in his life. I sometimes envy him because I may live my whole life without having the chance to experience what he is experiencing. I know that if I was in his situation, I would probably feel differently but he’s learning and experiencing things that I will never get to. I’m okay with that because we all have our own unique journey and we all have different things we need to learn and experience but it doesn’t mean I’m not a little jealous in a weird way.

For me, I sit quietly in my back yard at night, enjoying the moonlight. I speak out loud to myself. “I am a good person”. “I am a good father”. “I am a good husband”. “God loves me no matter what”.

I’ve had some intensely quiet, peaceful moments.

You are a good person. God knows that and loves you unconditionally for it.

[Anonymous]

Swimordie and Others,

In theory I have always believed that God loves me as He demonstrated by His love for so many other “sinners” (students).

I believe like you do that He loves us unconditionally. Meanwhile as with any loving parent, there are still behavioral consequences for the children. FOR OUR LEARNING. But this A student flunked this one.I feel desperate for a life jacket, after I was thrown off the boat,( or even if my own stupidity got me there).

Hey if your jealous of hardship experiences, this would be a good time for vicarious exchange. But truly, in the past I liked the traits that my hardships developed in me, but this experience is like the walking dead! I want to feel His love and protection. It is the only place I have ever really received it.

Has anyone been risen from the spiritual dead?

Alexia

Posts: 36

Joined: 02 Jun 2009, 22:50

[Anonymous]

I view my spirituality as much of a roller coaster–full of highs and lows. It sounds like you’re in a low right now. I think it’s important to just keep fighting through these lulls (and sometimes it feels very much like a fight.) It seems to me that I often get back to the top without realizing it.

[Anonymous]

Do you think the average member goes to the “low” of not believing in anything?

My belief is at a point of 1) feeling sharp pain 2)feeling numb 3) believing in nothing more than it is good to be good to others 4) Entertaining thoughts that I have wasted my life in terms of sacrificing family, and marriage (only offers from non-LDS) 5) and Angry at recent trauma

On the other hand I believe that positive, faith, and creative good has much power. I know that when your soul is low you can get it back, but what about when it is gone, empty. Can the spiritually dead be brought back?

(I am hoping that Post Traumatic Stress, and depression/discouragement aside there will be a chance for renewed belief. With depression, I know the body and mind can cycle back. I do not know about this type of spiritual death or coma. Does anyone know anyone that has “come back to life”?

I get moments of hope that I can find truth and light. Appreciate the comments

Alexia

[Anonymous]

I don’t know how to characterize an “average” member. I think we all are different, and it is hard to categorize what “average” is. But I don’t think you’re unique in your questioning. We all go through that. The internet is full of people who go through these same tests that you do. Even Mother Theresa wondered if God exists. If someone that pious can question, then you’re certainly not alone. However, the “average” member in the church usually doesn’t express doubts. So this forum is unique because you should find many kindred spirits here.

I’m no expert in depression, but it sounds like there are some things going on in your life that may affect your spiritual ability to understand God. You mentioned something about trauma, and I suspect it is higher on your list than #5. I suspect it contributes greatly to #1, 2, and 3 (and perhaps even #4.)

My brother died in a car accident almost exactly 3 years ago. At the time I was also working graveyard, and was not getting enough sleep. When the accident happened, it caused a great deal of questioning in my life. It was probably a blessing that I taught Gospel Doctrine during this time, because it forced me (1) to study the scriptures, and (2) to go to church. While it may not have been good for the ward to hear my provocative questions (I think I was released because of my provocative questions–which were much more tame than things I write on my blog by the way), it was very therapeutic for me. (I started my blog as a direct result of being released.)

My brother’s death was a real stress on my marriage as well. I don’t know that I ever considered not believing, but I questioned quite a bit. I was really angry–I guess that was how I dealt with mourning. My wife says she thought I was depressed, and needed counseling. I didn’t get counseling, but I probably would have benefited from it. Thinking back on it, I probably should have done it. My sister did talk to a counselor, and it really helped her. At any rate, I did have a pretty good support group, and I did start a blog where I was able to vent a bit, and talk about provocative church topics. The result has been a much happier person. I don’t have the same faith I did before, but I have a more mature faith in God, which I don’t view as a bad thing. (I know that some people view me as quite a liberal, or unorthodox Mormon. One person–a TBM–even characterized some of my writing as bordering on anti-Mormon, which is funny, because this person and I used to tag-team against real anti-Mormons.)

[Anonymous]

alexia, you have mentioned PTSD and depression more than once. Are these clinical diagnoses – and, if so, have you taken or are you taking medication for those conditions?

[Anonymous]

I wanted to down play the incident that triggered the Trauma but I mention it in earlier posts. I am in the field to diagnose PTSD and fortunately know how to deal with that even though I do not have insurance to add in traditional medical approaches. Bottom line is that the real issue was (IMO) more importantly related to Holy Ghost (or lack there of) during an incident with what I would call “evil” in LDS clothing (those professing to be LDS but acting w/cruelty & without conscience). So that is why I have been asking about the Holy Ghost.

Meanwhile I know that I must forgive those that crushed me, and overcome the fear of man and the loss of connection with God that resulted. I am now forced to address Maslow’s hierarchy and that is to struggle with basic survival needs while yearning for self-actualization thru the spirit. The theory insinuates that it can’t be done, but it seems that in impoverished countries there are examples of spirit giants able to forgo the importance of physical food, in a sense.

Again, it is a matter of feeling that this was more than I can bear (and if you knew my history, I have been thru harsh ordeals without much of a scratch). Does the Holy Ghost mean something real? Is it more than a feeling of connectedness with self and nature? Can a person be brought back from spiritual coma or death a second time (Someone mentioned conversion & baptism earlier)?.

Alexia

[Anonymous]

You’re speaking in real vague terms, so it’s hard to give good advice. But I will say this. If forgiveness is the issue, it may be the very thing keeping you from feeling the spirit. I have had some big issues with my dad, and when I forgave him, it opened up some real spirituality in my life. When Jesus tells us that the person who doesn’t forgive is guilty of the greater sin, I believe that the reason for this is that it prevents us from feeling the spirit, rather than truly being that we are guilty of the greater sin. Lack of forgiveness stunts OUR spiritual growth.

Having said that, I do know from personal experience how difficult it can be to forgive someone who has wronged us. It often can be EXTREMELY difficult. But it probably is also the reason you feel “spiritually dead” right now.

[Author]

Posts