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Thanks Just mefor your message that” The gift of “feeling the Spirit” and inspiration (even if its in my mind it is my reality)”. I had that gift to some extent in the past and that is why I cannot divorce from this Church’s spiritual arena without testing out truths again. My life mission has been to try and show love to others , as if a Mormon Nun, and now as you say, my desperate search is to find love in others. Yet, perhaps I relied too heavily on the idea that “By their fruits ye shall know them”. Wow what a basket of evil fruit I have met these last three or so years. (I’m sure I have been a rotten apple myself at times) But feeling cut off from the source of Love makes loving others a challenge. I wonder? Will I no longer be inspired in my help to others? Strange and embarrassing story but after my mission I had an incredible incident. I was struggling months after my lung removal. I went to church a bit late and felt moved to leave. What spirit tells you to leave church? I thought, well I’m going anyway. I drove a bit and was engrossed in the road. I felt to break my stare and turn to the left. “Go into that church”(another LDS chapel) I am stubborn and skeptic, so I told myself, there must be a chapel on every corner around here, maybe that is why I see it. A strong impression of a voice said “Why do you think I told you to turn to your left.Go In”. So I did. Outside in the parking lot was a former missionary companion that I loved dearly. She was crying and had experienced great pain with a relationship & gospel issue. I just walked up to her and hugged her, and said, did you call for help (meaning here I am to help the Lord’s work for you). It was an intense feeling of amazing grace, peace, love, etc. We walked inside the chapel and sat with a few other friends, one from mission (I did not previously know that any of them were there). We sat silent, the occurrence was spiritually over the top. Description lacking, my point is that days later I felt jealous that God did not come and help me that way (Don’t bother telling me, I know He). Yet back to my senses I was glad to be a tool. Can I be a tool now? Broken?
Mormon Heretic, You say “What is so hard for me is understanding why God seems to answer certain people and not others. I have no answer for that. Sometimes people go through all the steps of Alma 32 and don’t get the answer. I do not understand why, but I don’t deny that their experiences are just as valid as mine. The best answer that I can come up with is found in D&C 46.”
My question: Can you develop any gift? What do you believe the Holy Ghost is? (Are people avoiding the latter question?)
By the way your gift seems to be working just fine.
Alexia
Can you develop any gift?I do not know, but I believe it is possible. The apostle Paul told us to “covet to prophesy”, and we are constantly told to seek after spiritual gifts. However, I note that Joseph was told he would not be blessed in financial matters, so I know that God doesn’t always grant what we want.
It sounds to me like you have the gift to feel the Spirit–much more than I do. That’s a cool experience about running into your old mission friends.
What do you believe the Holy Ghost is?I think there are so many answers to this question. It can go in so many different directions. I usually turn to John 14:26 as well as John 15:26.
Quote:
14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
The Holy Ghost is a comforter that teaches us, and directs us toward God. I don’t know if you’ve read my post, but I believe the Holy Ghost can be our deceased family members. There is a great book called “The Message” by Lance Richardson that addresses this topic. I think you’ll find my post interesting, and I highly recommend the book. Check it out.
http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/02/16/after-death-experience-the-message/ How did I miss that thread? (wish I had been part of that discussion)Some more defined discussion on the Holy Ghost that I find helpful!. Such interesting ideas, some that I had skipping thru my mind before. I need to go back and finish reading. It still leaves me stumped on the” gift of the Holy Ghost vs. that spirit given to all.” Thinking of faith, the spirit, eg. in the movie “Faith Like Potatoes” (non-LDS) vs. the gift bestowed upon members of the Church of Jesus Christ. Also concerned about confusing signals and messages.
Angels, team of Holy Ghost, relatives,… I need their help and am to deft to get it at the current moment.
Alexia
Alexia, please understand that the following questions are not meant as accusatory. They simply are what has been playing in my mind as I read your comments. 1) Do you blame those who hurt you for your current, comprehensive situation?
2) What are you doing personally to change your life – not just from a spiritual perspective, but overall?
Though I was physically and emotionally drained by other negative events previous to this major event(as discussed earlier), When it did happen I guess that I expected that I should be able to discern these frauds that came in to my life “as if an answer to a prayer”. It seemed that in the past I had some level of discernment before when I received answers to prayers. And the Lord knew my health situation and the need to retire (maybe not my time?). I did have some questions like “these guys are Mormon, hmm, it feels a little different”. They had a Temple calendar/flyers in their office. I quickly criticized myself for being judgmental or doubting. Gee these guys were backed by the community and were missionary minded(hah) And then I allowed myself to be screwed accordingly. That is why my core question on the blog has to do with the Holy Ghost. Shall I be deceived again? What is the gift of Holy Ghost? What did I do to lose it? How do I regain it and refine it at a more precise level? Will I survive to even get a chance at doing that.
And then being human, I was livid w/ the LDS (in name) con men, and question, how can any human be so cruel, much less LDS/Christian human? The latter confrontations by the main con guy, were quite frightening, I won’t try to describe, but it felt evil.
I did not feel protected! I must say that at one point I was blessed by a female(that I did not know in person ) LDS business person who helped me at least not think that I was possessed or paranoid. She found previous law suits on these guys of a similar nature. I believe that she was part of blessing, if you will.
If you know anything about PTSD, which I experienced, there can be changes in the brain, and other physical side effects. I was already disabled to an extent before that. It is recommended not to make too many major decisions at that point. But I had to do something.
Before I was ready to do so, I pleaded for legal help (explained earlier post), I started selling everything I had of worth (not much), I tried to get extra work, though I am also responsible as sole caregiver to be at home. I got up early and dumpster dived to get anything to pay bills. I prayed, read scriptures, reviewed my life for repentance and begged for the spirit to give relief at least sufficient to get a few more hours of sleep. 5 hours sleep for a one lung and ill body does not seem to work. I attempted to sell the house, meanwhile transportation broke down 8 times, broken into and stolen parts 3 times, roof fell in, AC broke, lost one job, had 3 new severe physical health issues, no health insurance, and was threatened to lose part time work if I did not stay up and catch up w/reports, etc. All my communication about the situation had to be done in private because my mother suffers from anxiety disorder plus she is anti-mormon, so knowing all of this would have done her in. She had several “episodes” just by realization that something was wrong w/ the already low standard of financial stability.
Meanwhile, feeling abandoned by God. Eventually trying to think positively, like the Lord must think I am stronger than I really am (joke). I tried to research info but had zero time, only now do I have the courage to leave other duties undone to work on this spiritual dilemma. Frankly, I am proud of myself for my work to regain emotional strength in the midst of this mess. I have learned to do a few more type of repairs. Thru the past I have HAD to learn mechanics, plumbing, drywall, mold removal, insulation, furniture repair, painting, stucco, roof repair, electric, advocating with mortgage company, serve as my own attorney,use the computer, etc. I will be multi-talented but dead.
My life is comprehensive of my choices, good and bad, in face of life as it unfolds. As I mentioned before, I believe that I misunderstood the rules in the Church and perhaps would have been better off to marry even if it was outside of church. To gain family. Not sure. I did have a more “liberal” (yuk, I hate both “liberal” and “conservative” terms) view of different doctrine but focused on my bio family rather than future life . I am sure I could have done other things. Did I waste time being hurt, angry? Well here I am, and if there is something more I can do , that is precisely why I am here. Another perspective.
Sorry long answer- tired but hopeful
Alexia
I think we all expect that God will always watch out for our best interests. One need only read the story of Job to see the fallacy of that logic. We really need to try to have the same attitude as Job when tough times come. (Much easier said than done.) Be like Job. “The Lord Giveth, the Lord Taketh, Blessed be the Name of the Lord” , I used to love Gene Cook’s talk on faith that included that concept. I have faith in his faith. But, Went to church, great talks and one reminded me of an old inspiring 17 points of the True Church by Floyd Weston. I was excited that perhaps reviewing that could help me rebuild my faith. Googled it and there is talk of it all being a charade. Anyone know facts on that?
I am not giving up, but that was one more slap. The speaker’s tender show of love for his daughter was touching so I still got something positive.
Blessed be the Name of the Lord, I Hope, I Pray
Alexia
Isaiah 61:3 talks about god giving us beauty for ashes and joy for the mourning. In later verses, it says that He will give us double for our shame of what we have endured. If you can find it in you, try praising the Lord even in your empty times. They did this in OT times, and we can do it now.The very fact that you shared the story of the spirit leading you to a former companion is praise, keep at it. Try to remember all the times, the spirit has been there for you. Keeping pounding on the doors of heaven, if need be. I really like a song. I am going to send the link to you via … need to find it. The lady in the grayish blue shirt had lost her baby as it was born prematurely, just a few weeks before and was having a hard time feeling the spirit of worship, she still worked at it and the outpouring eventually came. LW
I will keep pounding on the doors of heaven. I thought I was pounding when I went to church and then that “17 points of true church” came up. I guess might as well do all the cleansing now. I guess we will all have the rug of old beliefs taken out from under us, and what we do then is what is important. Hope you find the song, and thank you for the effort.
Alexia
Alexia, I remind you that when my mission president told me to keep exercising patience, it was the last thing I wanted to hear. When I was so low, it seems that nobody could console me, no matter what they said. God’s time frame is not our time frame, and exercising patience when we have the least amount of it is one of the most difficult things we can do. Can you tell me what verb matches with patience? It is a hard word to hear at retirement age and having not lived the life desired. I am not dead yet, that is a good sign. The positive is that I have seen beauty and miracles in the past and hope to see them again, though I must reframe what kind I expect. Your response do help. I was already able to laugh at every time I paid tithing something occurred that set me back more than that amount. Some of the things that happened were so ridiculous it is as if meant for a (tragic) comedy. It will make for good review someday.
What to do while I am being patient? Being still is different than waiting. I am afraid if I stop “moving” I will give up.
It seems that the lesson I have is for listening to the spirit. I can’t rely on loud messages over the pulpit. Funny it comes at a time that I am actually losesing my physical hearing. Again your example of patience on your mission was a good example to follow.
Alexia
Alexia I haven’t read any of the comments, just the original post. So please forgive if I mention what’s been said. I’ll just offer my point of view and then I’ll read through the comments later. Personally, I haven’t noticed anything different with the Holy Ghost or without. Of course maybe I never had it, I dunno. I sure tried to. Or maybe I still have it. The HG for me has always been a very confusing phenomenon that we like to discuss in the church, and casually toss around verbs in that context without ever nailing anything down. For me, I see too much psychology in my “spiritual experiences” to really latch onto the HG concept. I have thoughts come into my head that turn out to be nothing more than based on fear, or uncertainty. In other words, discerning (something I think I’m quite adept at in the physical realm, in communication, and interpersonal relationships) the HG is not one of my strong suits. I don’t know if I still have the HG or not but I know I still have spiritual experiences, still get sudden strokes of ideas, still make wise decisions, still have epiphanies about religious ideas, still get satisfaction out of the scriptures, still care about people, and actually now, I love people, generally, more than I ever have.
I don’t really know what any of this means which is partly why I don’t pontificate much about various dogmas, spirits, angels, the afterlife, and other (to me) unknowable parts of life. I pretty much just try to love people unconditionally and let the rest work itself out. I still like to think about the points mentioned, but I don’t hold too closely to any one set of doctrines or ideas on those subjects. I remain in the church because it helps me facilitate the unconditional love and service. And probably a little bit because I am familiar with it.
Alexia, I just checked thesaurus.com and found some interesting synonyms and antonyms. Patience as a verb could be bearing, persevere, persist, tolerate.
Definition: capacity, willingness to endure
Synonyms: backbone*, bearing, calmness, composure, constancy, cool*, diligence, endurance, equanimity, even temper, forbearance, fortitude, grit*, guts*, gutsiness, heart, humility, imperturbability, intestinal fortitude*, legs, leniency, long-suffering, longanimity, moderation, moxie*, nonresistance, passiveness, passivity, perseverance, persistence, poise, resignation, restraint, self-control, serenity, starch*, staying power*, stoicism, submission, sufferance, tolerance, toleration, yielding
Notes: patience means the capacity to endure waiting, delay, or provocation without becoming angry or upset;
Antonyms: agitation, frustration, impatience, intolerance
Being patient doesn’t imply simply waiting. To me, it implies actively being positive in the face of difficulties. So, just as Ammon was supposed to exercise patience on his mission, this implied that he was still going to pray, tract, proselyte, and keep doing the works of God, even when they seemed hopeless and fruitless. I think it is important to stay as positive as you can. So, as you reach out to God, stay positive like Job did.
Heretic, Thanks for the list. Sometimes a word holds a particular sting to it though the job still needs to get done. Thanks for your patience with me and your staying power. The next response was interesting. Some people don’t notice or experience the Holy Ghost outside of psychological phenomenon. That is my field but I would love to hear from someone in the field familiar with those mechanisms and still believes that there is something that speaks to us, outside of us. The new age “Secret” and manifesting intention has so many of the positive thinking and reframing concepts that has been used for ages in psychology. But some of the quantum theories allude, not to magic but what one might consider mind control over the elements. So we are back to the biblical duel between power of God and whatever the magicians were doing.
Did I bring all of this evil upon myself psychologically, spiritually, incidentally?
Alexia
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