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Amen, Heber. Thank you. That was astounding. I am always thrilled when one human can touch the lives of others, as your shared thoughts have done for me and for other readers. Heber wrote:
“I guess it comes down to my expectations of the Holy Ghost weren’t met. Do you think I read the signs wrong, or missed the answer that was before me? Is your experience anything like mine?”
I do not know about “wrong”, and I am sure answers are around us that we do not pick up, but that is expected in our growth.
(In the 3rd grade I never felt guilty for not recognizing college level material.) My personal experience felt like an amputation. I wonder if there is validity in the idea that sometimes “the answer” is to figure this one on your own. But I don’t want that to be a cop out. I have seen people miss the obvious (obvious to an outsider not linked with the emotions of the situation) so I want to be prepared to hear solutions from the spirit (including my own spirit), figure out solutions to new challenges that don’t come up on my spiritual radar, and take calculated risks.
Nonetheless, in my situation I still felt out of my league in all of the above. The pain was like something I have never known before and I have been thru more than you want to know. I have survived because of my memory of spiritual experiences past, my earthly tasks as a caregiver, some body bending work, and some knowledge of psychology, as well as bits of blessings in the aftermath.
Heber wrote:
I was too reliant on specific mormon doctrine muscles, and neglected some others that I am now building up to balance my TBM muscles with greater strength.
I hear that common theme particularly among life long Mormons. The entire response had perfect flow but I was stumped by the comment about never take a calling again. Please explain.
I think that part of my struggle, in that I don’t care for the feeling of being lukewarm (this does not mean I want to be orthodox!). Rather A passionate life about what I believe. Stories in BOM in which people were offering all that they had in exchange for the spirit, wow can I relate. Every piece of bread was robbed from me, I still do not know how I will survive that, and yet now I find the worse loss is what I call the Holy Ghost. At the moment I feel increased hope because of some of our conversations and spiritual work that I am doing any chance that I can get.
Many posts mention getting closer to nature, so in the middle of a landslide, digging out from the mud before the tsunami comes, there must still be a way to find the beauty. Let me know.
Anyway, I just listened to the convert BYU Philosophy Professor’s Ipod broadcast on this site and it was interesting. I could relate to some degree. I still find it humorous that he is so sold on the evolution bit when there is some recent scientific findings that put a hole in that theory. That does not mean that it is completely untrue, but perhaps scientifically different than what he thinks. We are growing both spiritually and scientifically (I hope). I have not experienced as much rigidity in all areas of the church. On my mission we were taught that there is a difference between the purpose of the scaffolding and the end spiritual product. I must have been a “bad Mormon” all along, because I never thought that we were to see doctrine as end answer, because it changes as we change. But, I still screwed up and got caught up in bad advice for singles.
So the rest of you all are still in the direction of a positive result, a life of love,etc. Great!
I am just leery about being taken in by a false spirit of love, which is more of immediate pleasure or relief. If truth did not matter, some Peyote or Ecstasy, or a good fling may feel beautiful. Maybe the rules help people not make that mistake in the forming years. Meanwhile, am in wonder that strangers here on this site have been more responsive than those that had direct knowledge of members robbing me.
Alexia
Heber13 wrote:I think I was able to accept this when one morning when I read this
Maori proverb: “Turn your face to the sun and the shadows fall behind you.”I broke down in tears. It impacted me far greater than the Book of Mormon scriptures I was desparately searching through to find peace. That was when I realized the Spirit was talking to me differently, and I need to listen differently. That was awesome Heber13. Thanks for sharing that beautiful thought.
Alexia wrote:I am just leery about being taken in by a false spirit of love, which is more of immediate pleasure or relief. If truth did not matter, some Peyote or Ecstasy, or a good fling may feel beautiful. Maybe the rules help people not make that mistake in the forming years.
I’m tempted to go into some dangerous waters here, so I’ll tread lightly. Alexia, I’m very sensitive to your plight right now, as I mentioned in a previous post, someone extremely close to me is going through it all at the same time too: divorce, bankruptcy, job loss, leaving church, all in the last six months.
There was a time in my life when I discovered that the truth for me, was completely internal. In a sense, it felt like it was just me and God. Literally, everything else took on a level of importance for me as I let it.
I chose the truth for me, I chose the love I would share, I chose what was right and wrong, I made all the rules.
I let myself accept and believe that I am a good person. As such, I would never choose to harm anyone or offend God. I’m not saying I’m perfect or I’m going to be perfect, but my intentions are always for the loving, for the sharing, for the joyous.
I know that God loves me and knows my heart. So, why shouldn’t I be the one who makes the rules? I’m not going to make them wrong. I’m not going to make them for selfish reasons. I’m going to make them as a part of my journey, to mark the path that I’m following, partly to show where I’ve come from but also to recognize the moments of love, joy, peace, intimacy, or depression, angst, bitterness that teach me how to better calibrate the rules I give to myself.
What I’m trying to say is, embrace the good, embrace God, embrace life, embrace yourself. You know what works for you. Make your own rules. Break all the other ones that you didn’t make and wouldn’t make. Go crazy. Sometimes, I think God wants us to just say WTF.
For me, truth is personal, internal. I’m irreverent by nature and God loves me for it!
I appreciate everyone’s feedback. I knew once I started into it, I was responding more for my therapeutic benefit, and it might be too long for others to bother reading, and in fact, almost went back and deleted it all before submitting. Glad I didn’t – thanks for the supporting comments. It felt good to get it out. Alexia wrote:I wonder if there is validity in the idea that sometimes “the answer” is to figure this one on your own.
Absolutely, 100%, dead-on target!! That was one of the hardest things for me to accept…when I didn’t feel directed by the spirit on what to do specifically (my expectation), I never realized the Lord knew I could do it on my own. I just didn’t know that. I think that was the hardest part of my lesson…definitely the hardest part was feeling alone when I didn’t want to be. You said it very well! and I think its an important lesson for us at times.
Alexia wrote:The entire response had perfect flow but I was stumped by the comment about never take a calling again. Please explain.
I was not trying to say I wouldn’t ever TAKE a calling again, only that I don’t ever expect to be issued another leadership calling again. I guess I can’t go into all here…for various reasons, but I just wouldn’t be a good choice to lead anyone else, its just how I feel. Maybe something to do with if they extend a calling, I’d have to express all my new found doubts and beliefs in non-mormon doctrines that have helped me through my new path, even though they compliment my mormon beliefs, not replace them. I would think they’d reconsider someone else more dedicated to the church, but who knows. More importantly, I’m not concerned about it. I’m focused on my family’s welfare and my relationship with God.
swimordie wrote:What I’m trying to say is, embrace the good, embrace God, embrace life, embrace yourself. You know what works for you. Make your own rules.
Excellent point, swim. Especially for me…it is embrace yourself. Know God loves me just the way I am. Let Christ take a lot of the burden we place on ourselves, let go of it, and be a better person because of it.
Alexia, your situation sounds incredibly difficult. I have faith you will figure it out though. We have different paths to go down, but I think Swim was on to something with his advice on LOVE. That is key. It is a gift from God. You can’t have hate for your enemies and love for God in your heart at the same time, IMO. I can tell you’re a loving person from your posts, but that just struck a chord with me when I read swim’s post on that.
This has been such a good thread, one that I have enjoyed reading. We all have times when we feel abandoned or forsaken by God the Father, even Christ did, but the truth is He never leaves us… we are just looking through our knothole of pain during those times, so our perspective is super limited. We must fully learn to trust the Father, and the Savior led the way in that, but even He had that moment. Heber and Swim, you have summed it all up well. Alexaia, hope things are looking up and you have eased up on yourself and noticed the effects of the spirit more in your life lately as well. Swimordie wrote ” I’m tempted to go into some dangerous waters here” Hey Swim
andDie, go for the danger!?! ” So, why shouldn’t I be the one who makes the rules?” Well I’m not sure I trust you as much as I trust Christ, but I think I know what you mean. Obviously, you cannot be a rule maker without hurting someone. Just think of parenthood. Ouch!
And I have seen parents make terrible choices in the name of love. Eg. I don’t want my kid to stay in the hospital because he is scared, I don’t want him to have injections/vaccinations because they hurt. Somewhere knowledge and wisdom must appear, in order to do love right (don’t over react on the “right way” issue).
I have broken a lot of rules in my life, and still break sub-cultural rules for fun. I would have never gotten out of severe poverty of my childhood if I had not broken rules of the game ( not referring to broken laws). (But dang it, I am back where I started.) I still love the concept of the “irreverent” wild card and God loves you.
Lady Wisdom, I appreciate your encouragement. I feel hope and that is a start. It is hard to explain why the gift (of Holy Ghost) is so important to me.
As far as faith fighting, I do not see the value in it. I admire people that believe in something!
Re: Christian faiths, I have been on both ends of the LDS and Non-LDS sides. I have experienced love and the spirit in many churches, but the spirit at an unexplainable level came through the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS. Interestingly, I felt some unexpected judgment from my Baptist and Presbyterian and Catholic friends in that all of a sudden I was not as good, my love for Christ was not as valued and my faith and belief in the Holy Ghost was criticized once I attended this Church. Many made fun of(disagreement is fine by me) the temple and other beliefs, similar to the mockery you can see on you tube etc.
I guess I was fortunate to not see that much judgment among the LDS toward other Christians, and when I do see it, I call them on it.
I understand the temple situation can be frustrating. But I also understand the concept of a place for “of one mind”, a place of quiet, peace, serenity, and similar spirit for a purpose. I also had problems with it earlier in my life, being only member, but later had scenarios unfold before me in which I saw roommates and others enter the temple and it back fired because of their own negative thoughts (different than questioning). ( I can tell I need to stop trying to cram this idea into the thread).
I never feel that God loves one less than another, but the scriptures do show Christ’s displeasure and expectation of certain behaviors. Simple fact there is discipline in the universe, yet in such variety. I seldom feel guilty, I just stop at the warning sign and follow the directions, of stop, detour, caution, etc. Guilt was never meant to be (IMO) a place to live to feel inferior even if others contribute to you feeling that way. But sometimes guilt unheeded does have interesting results.
Now more than ever, I appreciate the spiritual pain that others may be feeling. I hope that God lives, and I hope that the universe flows toward peace between us all and there will be no room for spiritual death. When I do get the Holy Spirit back into motion, I pray that it will never fail me to the point that I cannot help others to see His light. Funny words from the blind.
Alexia
“Turn your face to the sun and the shadows fall behind you.” Sayings like this, and others found in the Bible, the Book of Mormon, and other beautiful pieces of wisdom in the world are comforting.
Heber wrote ” That (silence from God sometimes means do it yourself)was one of the hardest things for me to accept…when I didn’t feel directed by the spirit on what to do specifically (my expectation), I never realized the Lord knew I could do it on my own. I just didn’t know that. I think that was the hardest part of my lesson…definitely the hardest part was feeling alone when I didn’t want to be. You said it very well! and I think its an important lesson for us at times.”
Meanwhile, I am tired of doing it on my own, yet in the same breath, my greatest virtues came from being forced to do it on my own. Until now. As you all celebrate Father’s day, the only Father I have known is the one in Heaven. In a sense I felt I lost Him too. But on the positive end, not having much of family makes me seek that re-connection all the more.
Heber wrote ” You can’t have hate for your enemies and love for God in your heart at the same time”.
Funny, how you hear something a thousand times and it does not sink in. I guess I have hate. I hate the act which was done to me (or to anyone like me poor, fatherless, orphaned, etc) and I have not fully forgiven the people attached. Duh, insight that I have never really hated before, and needed to? So many times I could say (because of psychology training and/or the spirit) Father forgive the for they know not what they do. I believe these supposed LDS, cons knew exactly what they were doing. Maybe not.
I admire your perseverance, Alexia. Sometimes I wonder if we are allowed to go through terrible situations because it allows us to have greater empathy for someone else … someone that we might be able to lift and bless their lives because we’ve been through something similar and can provide them hope. Perhaps there is something in your future to bless someone else’s life, and in doing so, find great joy. Christ showed us the way. His love is a healing power to us all. And although perfect, He also suffered.
Quote:healings are an integral component of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. It is so powerful—so all encompassing in its scope and reach—that it not only pays the price for sin but also can heal every mortal affliction. He who went forth suffering pains and afflictions of every kind that He might know perfectly how to succor His people (see Alma 7:11–12), who bore the incomprehensible burden of the sins of all who belong to the family of Adam (see 2 Nephi 9:21), in like manner extends His healing power to all, regardless of the cause of their affliction. “With his stripes we are healed” (Isaiah 53:5).
Alexander B. Morrison, “The Spiritual Component of Healing,” Ensign, Jun 2008, 46–50You may want to check out that whole talk by Elder Morrison. There are some great ideas in that talk.
It is a journey in and of itself, sometimes, to figure out how to do that…how to lay your burdens at Christ’s feet and let him heal you. Something I am striving to more fully do in my life. God bless you.
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