Giving a presentation on polygamy…help?

[Anonymous]

Oh my gosh.

How is this an okay topic to discuss with the youth?

Well, apparently it IS and I’m wondering…what the heck do I say?

I am in the camp of “this isn’t doctrine,” so…I’m truly at a loss.

:wtf:

[Anonymous]

Who made the assignment?

Did they give you any material or guidance?

What is the goal of this presentation?

My 1st reaction is: you’re walking into a HUGE minefield.

No matter how well you make your presentation, you will be open to criticism

from local leadership & parents. Without further clarification or instruction, I wouldn’t do it.

If they give it to you, get it in writing if possible.

[Anonymous]

I don’t know how out in the open you are regarding your position on polygamy with the people who made the assignment, so YMMV, but if it were me, I’d probably create a presentation that exposes the dark side of polygamy (is there a light side?). Then I’d show the presentation to the people who made the assignment and ask if that’s what they had in mind. It could be very cathartic, even though there’s no way that they would let it stand. Then, I’d say, “well, probably someone else better do the presentation, but I hope they will not hide the fact that it had serious repercussions.”

[Anonymous]

I hope you can be true to yourself without giving offense. This is where the rubber meets the road, right here. I couldn’t tell a bunch of young men and women that this is God’s doing. I could explain that many people believed it was and acted accordingly.

My girls have been in enough classes in the last two years with teachers saying reckless, and, in my opinion, spiritually bankrupt things. (I used to be one of those teachers, but when I knew better, I did better.)

When the church through its teachers and curriculum tells girls that Section 132 is the word of God, they aren’t just conveying a quirky 19th-century happening. And while some girls shake it off (like teenaged Hawkgrrrl) and some girls mentally submit (like my mother), I think most LDS girls upon learning about this go into a long, deep, private reflection about their very identity and worth and come out injured, whether they realize it or not.

That was a bit of a rant. I feel so strongly about this. I hope you can express yourself and look forward to hearing how it goes.

[Anonymous]

Ann wrote:

When the church through its teachers and curriculum tells girls that Section 132 is the word of God, they aren’t just conveying a quirky 19th-century happening. And while some girls shake it off (like teenaged Hawkgrrrl) and some girls mentally submit (like my mother), I think most LDS girls upon learning about this go into a long, deep, private reflection about their very identity and worth and come out injured, whether they realize it or not.

Amen Ann! I actually don’t see how some girls shake it off without just writing off they don’t believe in the church. I have come to the conclusion that I am high on the empathy scale – at least as a guy. Even as a young man full of raging hormones, the topic made me feel very uncomfortable. My main discomfort was placing myself in my sister’s shoes and what it must feel like for her to be hearing this.

[Anonymous]

1-bishop assigned it

2-the presentation will be broken up into different parts

3-my part is to present a timeline. I want to go all the way to the Bible to start the timeline. I WANT to include everything! I’m not sure how that will go over.

“

Quote:

My 1st reaction is: you’re walking into a HUGE minefield

My exact reaction as well.

When the deep questions come, NONE of us have an authoritative voice on the matter, so it’s gonna be a problem.

Quote:

I’d probably create a presentation that exposes the dark side of polygamy

Definitely want to do this!!

Quote:

teachers saying reckless, and, in my opinion, spiritually bankrupt things.

Excellent wording

Quote:

I think most LDS girls upon learning about this go into a long, deep, private reflection about their very identity and worth and come out injured, whether they realize it or not.

Injured for a really, really long time, too. And these young women will one day be young mothers who will have daughters and will repeat what they’ve learned along the way.

Quote:

Even as a young man full of raging hormones

And we have a few crass YM in our ward who will delight in hearing this.

Oh, boy.

I just can’t even….

[Anonymous]

So it’s specifically limited to presenting a timeline. How much time are you going to be given? You might not get much creative license if you aren’t given much time to fill.

Polygamy can be a hard thing for rising generations to stomach. If I were an orthodox bishop I’d appreciate you going back to the bible to start the timeline. Starting with a history from the bible might be viewed as a good way to (dare I say) justify the practice of polygamy in the latter-days.

If I started with Abraham, David, and Solomon I might put some effort into finding the scriptures that point out how polygamy complicated the lives of the people who practiced it. There are lots of parallels that could be drawn from the story of Abraham.

But if you are only charged with giving a timeline I wouldn’t expect there to be much time to analyze elements of the practice.

Quote:

I’d probably create a presentation that exposes the dark side of polygamy

QuestionAbound wrote:

Definitely want to do this!!

You could give a timeline for when JS was sealed/resealed to all his wives (making people wow at the quantity) or a timeline of how it took the saints a few tries to officially stop the practice. Anything else like “which came first, the restoration of the priesthood sealing keys or Fanny Alger” might be considered too taboo. I would throw up this caution. Your bishop may be looking for a simple timeline like polygamy started with [biblical prophet], in modern times it started in [year] and the practice ended in [year]. You might end up blindsiding everyone.

[attachment=0]minesweeper.jpg[/attachment]

Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Is there any way to back out of giving the presentation at this point? That’s what I’d be trying to do.

[Anonymous]

I want to back out.

I have 10 minutes for timeline. I could list several polygamists in the Bible, not all of them were righteous, not all of them were blessed for doing it. If I’m going to make a list like that, I feel like I should also say, “we don’t find this to be a commandment, but these men had multiple wives…list…”

But then the BOM makes it pretty clear that polygamy isn’t a good thing.

Then here comes BY and the forgotten desk copy of the revelation…and here we are today.

What a mess.

Here is what I have so far (obviously need to figure out just what I will present) and I’m still working on gathering info.

First polygamous mention in the Bible:

[Anonymous]

That’s an excellent timeline you put together.

I would take this serious and really see an opportunity to teach youth things I wish when I was a youth. They need to know the facts so they aren’t surprised or given false info.

I think I would focus mostly on 1831 onward in the events. Perhaps mention the biblical practice, and the work Joseph was doing on the bible which may have raised the questions in his mind about it.

But, spending too much time on the biblical history makes it seem to want to justify it as a normal practice. And you don’t have time to get into how different cultures were back then to really put it in context. Or explain how not everything done in the past is right for us today, or how little we really know from the records. So…avoiding all that…it really started because Joseph was thinking about it, and it is in the bible and ancient cultures, from which our society has progressed and is no longer acceptable.

I would focus on what happened with Joseph Smith, how it was not accepted in our culture and it was hidden by a few leaders to be protected, then BY institutionalized it, then the Manifesto, and we no longer believe it, it is grounds for excommunication now. After your point on the Manifesto…I would include Hinckley’s quote from the interview with Larry King…it is behind us.

Quote:

Larry King: First tell me about the church and polygamy. When it started it allowed it?

Gordon B. Hinckley: When our people came west they permitted it on a restricted scale.

Larry King: You could have a certain amount of…

Gordon B. Hinckley: The figures I have are from — between two percent and five percent of our people were involved in it. It was a very limited practice; carefully safeguarded. In 1890, that practice was discontinued. The president of the church, the man who occupied the position which I occupy today, went before the people, said he had, oh, prayed about it, worked on it, and had received from the Lord a revelation that it was time to stop, to discontinue it then. That’s 118 years ago. It’s behind us.

Larry King: But when the word is mentioned, when you hear the word, you think Mormon, right?

Gordon B. Hinckley: You do it mistakenly. They have no connection with us whatever. They don’t belong to the church. There are actually no Mormon fundamentalists.

Larry King: Are you surprised that there’s, apparently, a lot of polygamy in Utah?

Gordon B. Hinckley: I have seen the thing grow somewhat. I don’t know how much it is. I don’t know how pervasive it is.

…

Larry King: Would you like to see the state to clamp down on it?

Gordon B. Hinckley: I think I leave that entirely in the hands of the civil officers. It’s a civil offense. It’s in violation of the law. We have nothing to do with it. We’re totally distanced from it. And if the state chooses to move on it, that’s a responsibility of civil officers.

Larry King: President Hinckley, when the press pays attention to it, it does affect you, certainly, in a public relations sense?

Gordon B. Hinckley: It does, because people mistakenly assume that this church has something to do with it. It has nothing whatever to do with it. It has had nothing to do with it for a very long time. It’s outside the realm of our responsibility. These people are not members. Any man or woman who becomes involved in it is excommunicated from the church.

They need to know exactly what happened and what we believe today. Perhaps without out right taking a soap box on it…you can present the timeline and then give them the idea that it is behind us, we don’t have to believe it. Something that if any of them have questions, they know they can come talk to you about it in private and you can really go into how you feel.

I applaud the bishop for being brave to do this…and think it needs to be done right…but the youth are smart these days and need to know good info.

I think if I was assigned this…I would take it and do my best for the sake of the kids. If the other leaders don’t like my approach…they can stop asking me to present things in the future. But this is how I believe, I was asked to present, and I present it the best way I think it should be done. Avoiding it would leave it up to others to slant it the way they want to. These things need to be talked about in church.

As hard as it is…I bet you do a masterful job on it. You’ve got the right approach.

[Anonymous]

QuestionAbound wrote:

…

1856 – Brigham Young says that his wives have not seen a happy day in years and he would rather his wives get along than to fight b/c if they fight, he will put them out

1861 – Abraham Lincoln signed law making polygamy illegal (BY marries 6 more wives after this).

1876 – D&C redone: 101 taken out, 132 added in

1890 – Manifesto where Wilford Woodruff says that public polygamy will stop b/c it’s illegal and they believe in obeying the law of the land.

Are you going to go into how polygamy was still being authorized by some of the top church leaders (sometimes in Canada, sometimes in Mexico where the law turned a blind eye)? Some leaders were excommunicating people for taking plural wives while others were approving. Then finally some teeth was put into it saying we will excommunicate anybody that practices it.

No mention of the pressures mounting on the church (the US Gov was convescating all the churches assets and about to take over the temples)?

[Anonymous]

Heber13

Quote:

Or explain how not everything done in the past is right for us today, or how little we really know from the records. So…avoiding all that…it really started because Joseph was thinking about it, and it is in the bible and ancient cultures, from which our society has progressed and is no longer acceptable.

Yes!

ALL that really needs to be said is: Some people thought it was a good idea and practiced it. We don’t practice it today and we don’t teach it today. The end.

But, that won’t cut it, so…

Looking Hard, this is what I’ve added this morning:

1856 – Brigham Young says that his wives have not seen a happy day in years and he would rather his wives get along than to fight b/c if they fight, he will put them out

1861 – Abraham Lincoln signed law making polygamy illegal (BY marries 6 more wives after this).

1866 – Brigham Young says that men can only become gods if they practice polygamy

1876 – D&C redone: 101 taken out, 132 added in

1890 – Manifesto where Wilford Woodruff says that public polygamy will stop b/c it’s illegal and they believe in obeying the law of the land.

Church still practices polygamy through sealings (offshoots in Mexico/Canada)

1904 – Joseph F. Smith says that the church will excommunicate people who practice polygamy

1958 – Bruce R. McComkie said that plural marriage would come back to the earth (not official spokesman)

1998- President Hinckley says about polygamy, “I condemn it, yes, as a practice, because I think it is not doctrinal.”

2006 – Church PR dept had interview with LA Times:

Question: Is polygamy gone forever from the Church?

LDS PR: We only know what the Lord has revealed through His prophets, that plural marriage has been stopped in the Church. Anything else is speculative and unwarranted.

And that bolded part is I think where it should end. :clap: :thumbup:

Anything else is speculative, including Elder McConkie’s remarks.

[Anonymous]

QA, prepare for a lot of questions. Great timeline.

[Anonymous]

Two additional thoughts – I realize this is a bombshell topic – at the same time – Congratulations. You have been handed an opportunity. You get to add to a conversation. That’s an honor and a trust.

Yes it’s only 10 minutes, but it opens doors. I encourage you to not feel obligated to fix this 200 year old problem in 10 minutes.

If it were mine, I would embrace it. I would look at it as teaching children to read. I can’t hand them a book and let it rip. I teach them the alphabet, the sounds, what the letters and words look like. This is the introduction. I don’t go into the stupid rules of affect vs. effect, or the silent “P” in psychology, or the “c” makes the hard, soft, or neutral sound. That’s farther along.

Do we have a mess- yes. 10 minutes nor 10 hours is going to fix it.

I am thrilled your Bishop even wants to touch it. I learned about polygamy the hard way, and while I was learning about it for someone else, another group of uninformed members was trying to claim it never happened and wanted to fire a school teacher for the lies they felt she was teaching. By introducing it you may be saving a person you don’t know.

It might also help to remember that polygamy doesn’t upend everyone, even when they know the facts. I know many of us here do have opinions of discomfort, but I know people who have polygamy knowledge and don’t get wound up by it.

Enjoy the honor. Honor the courageous women who practiced it. When we approach the tough topics with love we will help with the healing that needs to take place. I think you will be fantastic.

[Anonymous]

With only 10 minutes, I would skip the Biblical stuff entirely, lay out the modern-day timeline, and focus on the current situation – much like what Heber13 said.

I would tell the kids that I don’t believe for a second that polygamy will be required in the next life, and I would end by quoting from the BOM verse in Jacob – stressing that it is clearly only as a rare exception that it is allowed but that monogamy is the Lord’s default ideal.

I think that is an orthodox approach that also puts it in its place without opening a potential fight with other leaders. It also fits the timeline focus but gives you a chance to say it won’t be required of anyone.

[Author]

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