Giving it a shot.

[Anonymous]

Hello

I’ve been poking around for a while and figured I should introduce myself. I’m also needing to get some stuff off my chest and I hope this might help.

I’m the youngest child of a large mormon family. Every child in my family that has been able to has served a mission almost all have been married in the temple. Those things are not important to me, but I think they help give some context to my story. We moved out of Utah when I was five, so I grew up in the “mission field”. I’m now a young father and husband. I’ve been married about 7 years and have one preschooler. I served a mission, met my wife at BYU and probably look like a typical 30 yr old member.For the last 10 years or so I’ve been shelving a lot of questions about the gospel and starting about a year ago the shelf got crowded and things have really come to a head in the last few months for me. I guess I’ll start from the beginning.

The first time I remember having a serious question about the validity of the church was in high school some time. I was thinking about the number of members of the church, currently and through out time (including whatever the “church” would have been at different times in the history of the world). I realized that the church is really, really small compared to the amount of people who live and have ever lived on the earth. It seems kind of odd that if there is one church that holds the keys to salvation that church is really tiny. There is the lucky catchall that people who didn’t have a chance to hear the gospel in this life will get a chance to hear and accept it in the next life. But still, a very small number gets a chance in this life. If that number is so small, then what is the point of this life? I shelved this question, but its core had greatly influenced my views of the world. Unless the celestial kingdom is going to be a small party, then there have to be many paths there. (As a side note, when I read the how to stay essay I was glad to see I wasn’t the only person who has this concern.)

On my mission I started to have some serious doubts about the Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith. Studying the Book of Mormon during my mission I remember feeling like it was just made up. The parallels between Nephi and Joseph Smith really seemed too convenient. It just started to feel very authored, by someone who used his own life experience to tell some stories. Then I started to see some other church doctrines and church history stories that seemed to serve Joseph Smith’s personal interests. I kind of shelved this as well, kind of dismissing it as doubts put in my mind by satan. But I haven’t really been able to get through the Book of Mormon since my mission.

Then I got married in the temple, and I figured I had made it. My wife is awesome. I love her a lot. She has had some problems with the church and how women are treated. Which I can totally understand. Those problems grew after she went through the temple. I’m not going to get into her problems right now, but our journeys are very connected. I’ve never really known how to help my wife with her concerns. I personally just move forward and have put my doubts aside because I was afraid to tackle them. She struggled with them every week.

About a year ago I started avoiding going to church. I often used work as my excuse, I do a lot of freelance work so there is usually something I can work on at home. There is also a lot of overtime I took on at my regular job. I was kind of sick of feeling like I had to go to church. My wife was still going and taking our daughter. She had a calling that she liked so she stuck with it. I went occasionally, about 12 times over 10 months.

It was also getting harder and harder to tune out my doubts and concerns about Joseph Smith. Last fall I also read some things about blacks and the priesthood that I couldn’t really get over. Other than church leaders being racist, I don’t see any reason why the priesthood wasn’t available to everyone. I know that some people would agree with me on that. But I have a hard time with the idea that God’s church had to wait until the members where ready to handle the idea of black men getting the priesthood. God’s church didn’t have to wait for everyone to be on board with polygamy, but that one moved forward.

This is also when I started to have a hard time with how the church handles homosexuality. I don’t think homosexuality is a sin. And if we are going to encourage people waiting to have sex until they are married, then gay people will never get that opportunity. And more importantly they won’t get to partake in the awesomeness of being married. I don’t think that is fair. God loves all his children and wants them all to be happy. I’ve talked to a few people who have compared homosexuality with blacks and the priesthood, and even wondered if eventually homosexuality will be tolerated or even allowed in the church. But once again why does God’s church have to wait to make that kind of change? Shouldn’t God’s church be out in front making these kinds of changes that will challenge its members? But I don’t really see this happening, at least not anytime soon.

I kind of felt like things were coming to a head for me, I was reaching a crossroads where I needed to decide what I was going to do. I was scared to leave the church because of the unknown. I’m not sure what to teach my daughter. I was scared about my marriage. Our meeting and life goals were so tied to the gospel and the church. Would I still cheer for BYU? (just kidding, that’s an easy one, I will always cheer for the cougars)

Then my sister, the only child in my family who isn’t married in the temple told me she was gay. This put a face on my problems with the church’s doctrine about homosexuality. This kind of pushed me over the edge. I was ready to distance myself from the church. My wife was ready to distance herself as well. We both asked to be released from our callings (I haven’t really done anything for my calling in months anyway).

My sister then came out to the rest of my family. And then things started to get messy for me. Several members of my family called me, knowing that I had known about my sister for several weeks, asking for help on how to handle this. The way I talked about it raised a few red flags to some people, and it became apparent to my dad that I didn’t really believe everything that the church taught.

This conversation with my dad did not go well. He was pretty shocked. He was very concerned about how this would affect my mom. My mom and I are pretty close and I am her favorite. I’m her youngest and we get along really well. She’s had some heart problems over the last year or so and with the news of my sister; she was having a really hard time. So my dad asked if I could give church a chance, hoping that would soften the blow to my mother. I told him I would have to think about that before I could promise anything.

I talked it over with my wife and came to the decision that I would give going to church one last chance. I’d been having some concerns about the finality leaving the church and I hope that is giving it one last chance will give me a solid foundation for wherever I end up. I told my Dad I’d give going to church a chance and I’ve meet with the bishop. (He asked to meet with me and my wife after we both asked to be released. After that meeting, my wife was released and I said to hold off on my release.) A few days later I even talked to my mom. That conversation was hard, but it was good to talk to her.

So now, I’m giving the church “a shot”. I’m not sure what this means yet. I think this will probably mean going to church and reading the Book of Mormon. Today I went to church for the first time by myself; my daughter and my wife did not come with me. I only went to sacrament meeting and left during the closing song. I didn’t feel up to staying longer. I also didn’t want to answer the question, “Where’s your wife?” I came home and wrote this. It was very therapeutic and nice to get some of this things out of my head.

So that’s my story in a very large nutshell. I hope this place can help me in my journey, and thanks for reading if anyone actually made it to the end.

[Anonymous]

Welcome! I’m glad you found us. Many here have experienced your questions and concerns, I hope you’ll find good food for thought as well as positive support. You’re not alone.

[Anonymous]

Orson wrote:

Welcome! I’m glad you found us. Many here have experienced your questions and concerns, I hope you’ll find good food for thought as well as positive support. You’re not alone.

Absolutely not alone.

Welcome.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

[Anonymous]

Wow, you are so in the right place here.

The purpose of StayLDS is to help you and us get through situations like this. You seem to have identified the full gamut of challenges people have with the church, and why disaffection occurs. The path in front of you is not easy, but there are some factors here that may help you get through this.

First and formost, your wife sounds like she is with you on this journey. Many of us are married to true-believing members that struggle with our unorthodoxy. Some stayLDS while their spouse is completely out. To be united in this journey is a really good thing, although I suspect from yesterday’s non-attendance that your wife isn’t as wlling as you are to give it a shot. At least it’s a dialog worth having.

There are many resources to use here on StayLDS and elsewhere. I would read every word of Brian Johnston’s “How to Stay” article. It has almost every tool and technique necessary to surviving in the middle. To me, it’s even more important than scripture reading with your wife, the two of you ought to spend time studying the issues and approaches laid out in this fabulous article. Here are some other resources:

What the Church Means to People Like Me, by Richard Poll

Why the Church is as True as the Gospel, by Eugene England

Discussion of James Fowler’s Stages of Faith, by Brian Johnston et. al.

I think it critical to understand at this point that you have in your mind a schema of doctrine and teachings that is crumbling on you abou the church. A schema is a ‘tree of knowledge’ of sorts — it’s the way your knowledge is organized in your brain. Certain schemata (plural of schema) are strictly hierarchal, meaning that they depend upon a root and trunk of specific information. For most LDS people, their schema of religious values and knowledge is entirely based upon the core truth claims of the church: that a personal and physically human immortal God the Father lives and is the father of our spirits and communicates to us through the prophets and priesthood of the church, that Jesus Christ organized a church with specific attributes and doctrine, that all churches following Jesus Christ apostasized, that Joseph Smith restored Jesus Christ’s original church in perfect form, and that god actually directs the prophets day by day in each decision they make.

Once you realize that the core truth claims of the church are perhaps not ‘true’ in the literal sense of the word, then the schema, root, trunk, branch, and fruit becomes pretty unpalatable. You will need to deconstruct this schema in order to survive and stay LDS. Some people do successfully put the toothpaste back in the tube for a while, but it’s really messy. Most, the vast majority, do not survive faith transition as deep as yours seems to be as active members. A few of us have been able to reconcile our faith with our new understanding of truth. It’s difficult and tenuous. Here is why I stay LDS:

Wayfarer in a Wheat and Tares Article wrote:

The truth of the church is in restoring the idea that God continues to reveal His will through the heart and mind of those who listen to that still, small voice. God is not to be found in the creeds and orthodoxy, but rather, in the one to one personal experience that we call testimony. And this testimony is not the rote version so familiar to us, but rather the discovery, line upon line and precept upon precept, that God is nearer to us as humans than we think. The truth of the church is that we have a divine nature explained by a plan of salvation that uniquely lays out pre-mortal existence and the possibility that all may be in a realm of glory. These things cannot be proven, and truly are unknowable in logical terms, but they can be felt. To know that God is one of us leads us to a higher knowledge that we can be one with god in many unique ways. God is not so distant, but as one of us, fully knows our weakness and has more compassion than we possibly can realize.

As I redefined my understanding of the value of the church independent from its truth claims, I was able to see in the church tremendous value for my family and life. I have been wayfaring on this faith journey in the Middle Way for about 20 years. It has never been easy, but it has been extremely rewarding. I was in my 30s when I started, married, with five young children.

I wish you the very best — and I look forward to hearing your stories, and sharing your strength and hope.

Cheers!

[Anonymous]

No time right now, but I want to add my sincere welcome.

[Anonymous]

wayfarer wrote:

Wow, you are so in the right place here.

Quote:

Once you realize that the core truth claims of the church are perhaps not ‘true’ in the literal sense of the word, then the schema, root, trunk, branch, and fruit becomes pretty unpalatable. You will need to deconstruct this schema in order to survive and stay LDS.

Wayfarer said it above. If my experience is typical, after you lose your church innocence, it’s hard to get it back. But that doesn’t mean you can’t be an active member who is happy within the church. I think I am getting better and better at that.

I would suggest the following:

1. Focus on the good parts of being a Mormon.

2. Set boundaries that limit the negative influences.

3. Gently, and without expectation, work at making others think about their assumptions and biases, even those against gay people.

4. Recognize its a good place for kids to grow up.

5. Focus on developing your character within the LDS community.

For me this has meant limiting the amount of service I do, refocusing on community efforts, and recognizing the intrinsic benefits of home teaching, blessings using the priesthood (the fact they comfort people, whether true or not), the unique truths in the book of Mormon, and the spiritual experiences you have. I no longer jump every time a leader has a whim or claims inspiration that I should do something.

But that’s me. This way my children have something and aren’t confused about being Mormon, my family is still together, and we still have a community.

There will be bumps in the road but the people here are good at helping you develop your own way of staying lds even in the face of doubt, disagreement with doctine and cultural values, and personal angst. Good luck and let us know how we can help.

[Anonymous]

Welcome kilgore! I have found the people here to be very compassionate and helpful.

Many of the people here have a lot of experience to share in relating with family members RE: your changing views about the church. They have a lot of good advice and kindness.

You are definitely not alone!

[Anonymous]

kilgore, thank you for the Introduction. I know it’s hard to put together. But, it’s necessary. You must get your feelings, thoughts & ideas out.

Over time you will feel relief. And in the process get some spiritual insight & understanding.

Thanks again & welcome. We want to read more from you.

Mike from Milton.

[Anonymous]

Welcome! I think you will like it here! 🙂

[Anonymous]

Oh fudge! I wrote an awesome and profound reply, really 😆 and then the system timed out because I had to get something done here at work before I was able to post it.

Oh well. Glad you found us. We TOTALLY get it! I hope it helped to get a lot of that off your chest. It helps others to read your story and know there are people going through similar issues. Wayfarer did an great job of describing things with his description of faith content schema and his alternate use of the Tree of Knowledge metaphor.

There are two requirements to staying and being happy about it: believing in the church and liking the church. Those don’t have to be absolutes, but you need at least some minimal level of both factors to make a continued connection work.

It’s possible to change the way we believe, or at least the way we look at faith. It’s possible to adjust our relationship with the church so we find some enjoyment.

[Anonymous]

Welcome. As others have said, you are definintely not alone, and here you are among people who understand what you’re talking about. I’ve had similar feelings and questions about the BoM both during my mission and throughout my church experieice. I am in the middle of giving the church a “chance” as well, for the sake of people that I love. I have zero hope (or desire) that church will end up being what it once was to me, but I hope that it can still be meaningful and good. In some ways I wish I had gone through the journey you are experiencing at your age instead of ten years later. Oh, well. It is a journey, and it leads to a good place as long as you are honest with yourself.

[Anonymous]

Welcome, I think this will be a great place for you.

[Author]

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