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Getting the Deseret Book catalog within the last week and seeing the book “The Crucible of Doubt” advertised on the first page. A book such as this would never be carried by the Church’s bookstore five years ago. Baby steps… NewLight wrote:Getting the Deseret Book catalog within the last week and seeing the book “The Crucible of Doubt” advertised on the first page. A book such as this would never be carried by the Church’s bookstore five years ago. Baby steps…
Lunch with Dan Wotherspoon today. He is as pleasant and positive in person as he is on the podcasts over at mormonmatters.org. So glad I had a chance to meet him and just chat. As it turns out, my daughter ran track with his when they were in high school. Small world. NewLight wrote:Lunch with Dan Wotherspoon today. He is as pleasant and positive in person as he is on the podcasts over at mormonmatters.org. So glad I had a chance to meet him and just chat. As it turns out, my daughter ran track with his when they were in high school. Small world.
Nice!! I would love to meet Dan. His podcast is one of my favorites.
-SBRed
In high priest group we were having a discussion about apostasy because someone asked what constitutes apostasy. Before I could chime in another HP said that we don’t have to agree with the prophet, or even believe him. But we also can’t go about speaking against him. He didn’t say this in a “keep it to yourself” tone – he was making the point that what we believe personally can’t be considered apostasy as long as we are not trying to tear down the church or its leaders and as long as we are not trying to convert others to our point of view. He also made the point that we should be tolerant of the idea that everybody doesn’t believe exactly the same as we do and that diversity of opinion in the church is not sinful. Finally he made the point that the whole church started by a boy asking a question. Here we all know this, although I understand some of us don’t agree with it. What makes this a good thing that happens is that this came from a very highly respected member of the group who most view as very orthodox.
DarkJedi wrote:What makes this a good thing that happens is that this came from a very highly respected member of the group who most view as very orthodox.
Definitely a good thing!
Today I am thankful for those who courageously blaze new trails for those behind them to benefit from. In the context of what is going on with the church at present, it makes me grateful to those historians and others who worked to bring truth of the church out in the open. No doubt that they were walking a thin and lonely line to perform this service. But I think over time, we will all benefit from it. And since it is Sunday and I am handing out accolades to those who blaze new and better trails, I’m thankful to the many of unnamed parents of adult children with disabilities who have worked hard to enrich their lives. My own daughter with some significant disabilities will age out of the school system early next year, so my wife and I have begun in earnest to look for positive activities and programs she can participate in and experience fulfillment in her life. For the last few days, I’ve googled, searched, emailed, and researched. I’m touched by reading the blurbs on the “About Us” links on their websites to learn that it so often says stuff like the following:
“
was started by a group of parents who wanted their grown children to have a fulfilling experience as adults. At the time our program was organized, their only options were to keep their children at home, or to put them in a state institution.”. I’m grateful to the folks that have fought for funding and societal attitude changes to bring these kinds of services to fruition. Jamie is only 22 years old, but believe it or not as recent as her birth, the advice of someone at the hospital at that time was to give her up to the state and enjoy her twin instead. Really?? I am thankful to have her in my life. Though her “graduating” from school will bring some significant changes and possibly a forced move from the rural area in which we live over the next year, I wouldn’t give up experiences, like pushing her along in a giant stroller in a 5K race or singing Eric Clapton’s unplugged version of “Before Your Accuse Me” on the guitar for anything
My bishop gave the best talk about tithing I have heard in my life – and one of the best talks, period. It was nearly 40 minutes of his life story, with a lot of really good statements and stories that would resonate with everyone here, and he tied in tithing only at the very end – with two “tithing blessings” stories that some here might not like in isolation but that worked beautifully in the context of his own life story. One story that was especially powerful (not about tithing) was when he first attended an LDS meeting as a non-member youth – an insecure 14-year-old from the wrong side of town whose father had died the previous year. Not one person in the Sunday School class said a word to him, and he left vowing never to attend another Mormon meeting.
There wasn’t a sound, except for a few babies, the entire 40 minutes he spoke. It was an exceptional talk from a wonderful, humble, caring man.
Wow, that sounds like a great talk! When you think about it, we really know so little about those around us and the experiences that shaped who they are. I’m sure if we all had a decent understanding of that, we might be a bit more compassionate. While visiting another ward I had a foyer conversation with an investigator of the church. I had been in the Gospel Principles lesson, which was about the creation. He had asked a couple questions, but it was clear (to me, at least) that he still had questions after discussion and that he didn’t necessarily buy some of what was said. I had contributed a “we don’t know how most of it was done” which steered the conversation away from it. In the foyer we chatted about the Big Bang a bit and he said something along the lines of, “So you believe in evolution?” to which I responded that I absolutely do, as well as the Big Bang. We talked a bit more about how the evidence for evolution is overwhelming, and how it could fit with Mormon theology (we don’t know how God created man, etc.). I also warned him that while there are some members who believe as I do, there are others who are stuck in the earth being 6,000 years old, etc., and then there are the majority who really don’t think about it or maybe don’t even care. My talk that day had included the usual “there is room” ideas and I had talked about diversity, including diversity of thought, and not being judgmental. I related that back to the idea that while there is diversity of thought in the church, most of that doesn’t really matter because the real focus of the church is the gospel of Jesus Christ – that he lived, suffered for our sins, etc. (also part of the talk). We chatted some more about God’s involvement with our lives, which he struggles with. I admitted that I don’t know, but that I think some people need to believe that God helps them find their car keys and is intimately directing everything in their lives while others are fine with God not being that way – and that God may know what each individual needs and may interact or allow people to believe (in other words not interact) according to their individual needs. We also talked about agency and how God won’t interfere with the agency of an individual. It was a great chat, and I felt really good about it. Next time I’m asked to share a missionary moment I plan to share this, but probably in less detail.
The high council speaker told a great story today about how something seemingly very small, and he even thought a bit stupid at the time, brought about a great change in a family and a branch years later. His point was that sometimes we may not feel that we’re making a difference, but often the difference we make in someone else’s life is unseen by us. Thanksgiving boxes. I know the argument could be made that some are undeserving (although I don’t know what makes one undeserving of such service) or that needy families are sometimes missed or overlooked. However, overall I think the church gets this right. I honestly had the best Sunday School lesson taught yesterday. The Gospel Doctrine teacher made multiple points and guided a classroom discussion that all of us in this forum would be happy to sit through, even feel refreshed.
He started by talking about when prophets give us guidance, and we are blessed when we obey. And drew on the board the words “Prophets words” and an arrow to the right that pointed to the words “We are blessed when we obey” with a big PLUS sign.
He then asked for the class to not leave when he asks the next question, but to think more deeply. He then wrote “Don’t listen to the prophet” with a big MINUS sign, and asked, “When is it right to not listen to the prophet? Or is it ever?”
I have enjoyed this teacher’s lessons in the past, as he has admitted going through periods of doubts himself, but has landed with a firm testimony of the gospel. He has family members who have fallen away from the church after studying church history, and it saddens him to see their disaffection, although he understands their doubts are real.
While I’ve always wondered if he would be a fun person for me to open up to in person (I’m new to the ward, and don’t know anyone too well to talk about my ideas openly yet), I wondered how the class would react.
To my relief, the class all discussed the fallibility of prophets, and several class members quoted Brigham Young or others who pleaded with saints to not follow the prophet blindly. Several examples were given of times prophets did not get it right, such as Blacks and the Priesthood and the blessings and happy day it was when that was corrected. Members of the class talked about the importance of personal revelation, and that we all must have the witness, regardless of what the prophet says.
It was a wonderful, spiritual class. I could not help but think, “Perhaps these times we live in show that reasonable active members of the church are smart enough to accept the imperfections with leaders and the church, and still believe.” I don’t think active members are all so ignorant to the details as sometimes we think they are based on the comments of a few. At least in the suburbs of Denver where I’m at, there are examples of open minded believers (and examples of the opposite too).
Much of it had to do with the approach the teacher took to set it up nicely and make it safe to discuss and keep it uplifting. But my surprise was how many others in the class chimed in, and openly stated there are times the prophets speak as a man, and times we may not be inclined to follow them without a personal witness.
I think anyone in this forum would have enjoyed it as much as I did. I did actually speak up and made several comments about the difference between the church and the gospel, and about obedience to our conscience as much as to authority. Afterwards, this teacher shook my hand, and said he appreciated my comments.
I wanted to share that with all of you. It made my day. I feel there are places for me in this church, and I plan to keep building social capital in this ward as I participate and also as I open up with my views on things when they add to the building faith with others. I was filled with some hope.
One final thing that happened good yesterday…my son and I both blessed the sacrament together. It was his first time. It was a good experience to have as a family. The ritual of the sacrament, and how it helped us reflect on things was good for us. We would not have those opportunities if the church did not allow young and imperfect people to help officiate. Glad to hear this!
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