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We had two people today mention in their testimonies that they can’t say they know much but that they have faith and try to act on that faith. It was wonderful to hear.
Old-Timer wrote:We had two people today mention in their twstimonies that they can’t say they know much but that they have faith and try to act on that faith.
A twstimony. I bet you weren’t expecting to hear that.
Stupid small phone keys; not stupid fingers that used those keys. 
I fixed it, just for you.
🙂 In HPG today the member of the stake presidency from our ward as well as both high councilors from our ward and a visiting high councilor were present. The lesson topic was the atonement, but it evolved into a discussion of grace. The first four commenters were the SP counselor and all three high councilors – all testifying of grace over works. There are some “workers” in our ward, but they were so overwhelmed by these “gracers” that they had nothing to say. :thumbup: I was visiting a ward today where one elder bore his testimony for the last time before going home, talking about things he “learned and unlearned” on his mission. His companion also spoke about how happy he was to be staying in the ward. They were towards the back near us on the folding chairs and had an investigator with them. I was overwhelmed – I really couldn’t sing – when I watched them sing the closing hymn looking off of one hymnal. There was such happiness and love radiating from those three. I didn’t serve a mission and most days don’t wish I had; but today I did. I was involved in a reinstatement hearing over the weekend. I know the issues in many disciplinary hearings, but when they work how they are supposed to work, they are amazing experiences.
This one, in particular, was instructive for many of the brethren involved. I can’t share details, but, even though I wish the person hadn’t gone through their experience, I was glad everyone was able to be taught some needed lessons and perspectives by the person being reinstated.
The first speaker in Sacrament Meeting on Sunday spoke about her long struggle to feel the spirit or any sign that God loves her personally, despite her valiant efforts. She basically said she realized she wants to believe it, so she has to rely on trust alone, since she just doesn’t seem to be able to have the kind of experiences other people have. It was a WONDERFUL talk.
The Gospel Doctrine Teacher and I were on the same page together, TWICE. I don’t Gospel Doctrine during the Mormon years – BoM and D&C (It’s not church history, no matter what they call it.) But I pop back in after the Book of Abraham/Creation section and hang out for Old and New Testament.
Our teacher is more TBM, but a nice guy. Well the two of us both pushed back on the class judging the Israelites for not getting their act together during the Exodus. He started gently. Then a bit later, I popped up and said, I would have been a whiner. All my life I would have be told that “Deliverance was coming.” If walking for days and only eating the same food was deliverance, I would be way ticked. No matter what the “Godly” lesson was. He took off running with it. In total support.
Later we had “Ministering” as the 5th Sunday Special. He left about half way through. I bumped into in the parking lot and made a joke about we all talked about him after he left. He asked if I had a minute. I was sure I had offended him. Wrong. He was ticked because he had just taught a class about the children of Israel and their struggles, and everyone in the class was happily judgmental about the Israelites. But every answer from the moderns (us) sounded like rehashing of old Home Teaching not new Ministering. We talked for about 20 minutes. It was a great conversation.
The man is older than I am in and in a different stage of life, but not as Traditional as I had assumed he was. Good lesson for me.
We made it to church today as a family. I sat in the Nursery with my daughter during Sunday School, but figured that I could attend Relief Society with my 20 month old cute extrovert daughter (the R.S. room is more child-proofed than the chapel, and several wannabe grandmas haven’t seen my daughter recently to grandparent/spoil). We had had a fast and testimony meeting full of “these people in my life lost their testimony over yada yada – but thankfully I still have mine” (that was the gist of it)… However, there was one testimony by our local unorthodox sincere tribal elder that focused on how he believed in a force greater than and smarter the was, and this was God. He shared some of his experiences with God and how they were meaningful for him. But that was as far as it went – his sincerity and his wording brought me back into listening and being hopeful. Anyways, in R.S. we were talking about what our branch relief society wanted to focus on, and I added that a good principle in general and that would be helpful for missionary work was to “Seek to Understand before seeking to be Understood”, and how it had been my experience that for some atheists and agnostics, God had died in their lives, and it was possible and even likely that they had been and/or were going through a period of mourning. If we want to understand how they relate to God, we need to understand before they tell us (if they do tell us) that there is sorrow there that we can relate to (maybe not well*).
Several others (we are a small branch so there were maybe 10 -15 of us) shared comments that related to that and the importance of just listening and meeting the person wherever they were – both inside and outside of the church.
*NOTE: Both of my parents are living, but I have lost 3 of my grandparents. 2 of those grandparents were not important to me, so I didn’t/don’t mourn them. But 1 grandmother was very important to me and I struggle at times with my grief still even though it has been over 20 years. My understanding of mourning the death of a parent is limited to the empathy/understanding I have from mourning my grandmother and magnifying it in my miind. Maybe it is hard sometimes for TBMs to relate to atheists/agnostics because it is the equivalent of atheists/agnostics losing parents or grandparents, and the TBMs have not had that life experience to learn from yet.
Yesterday we got a new counselor in the Bishopric of our ward. He is quiet, unassuming & hard working. He had been inactive for a while then became active again about a year or two before we did.
Our ward is a good mixture of Students, professionals and others that are from the inner city.
Some that are TBM, others that are not & others in between. Everyone that I talked to said he was a good
choice for the job. I agree.
I hate to admit it but it has been a very, very long time since I have felt anything positive coming out of a church meeting. In the ballpark of years. It has really taken a toll on my perspective. Credit where credit is due, the other day I attended an extracurricular meeting and the meeting reminded me of my early days of StayLDS. I could really feel the love and dedication of the people that were presenting. They may express their love in ways that don’t resonate with some people but there can be no doubt that they love the people they serve. I found it far easier to appreciate their perspectives.
I think for me the most difficult, unfulfilling aspect about our church is the 3 hour block. I’m not talking about length, I’m talking about the scripted, predictable, walled-off nature of the lessons and talks and how the block makes me feel like an outsider. I feel the real church lives outside the 3 hour block.
Sorry I can’t be more specific than that, I just wanted to report that I got a much needed reboot the other day.
nibbler wrote:
I could really feel the love and dedication of the people that were presenting. They may express their love in ways that don’t resonate with some people but there can be no doubt that they love the people they serve. I found it far easier to appreciate their perspectives.
Thanks for sharing what you found.
Sometimes, despite itself…the church and the people get it right…in a curious way.
They are loving and helping some people…but at the same time still saying things over the pulpit that hurt other people.
And so…2 people could sit in the same meeting listening to the same words… and one come away with the idea of how loving the church is and the other person come away hurt and ashamed at the way they don’t love people.
But…I’m with you…I don’t think there is any doubt they sincerely love the people they serve. And it is good to give credit where credit is due. I guess it is equally good to not brush under the rug the other stuff.
Nibbler – this may seem trite, it is meant with sincerity, I am sending hugs. Like Heber said, I am glad you found some bright spot in life. That love exists somewhere.
I am coming to the conclusion that life is perception. The hardest part is not having someone to share your perception with.
mom3 wrote:
Nibbler – this may seem trite, it is meant with sincerity, I am sending hugs.Like Heber said, I am glad you found some bright spot in life. That love exists somewhere.
I am coming to the conclusion that life is perception. The hardest part is not having someone to share your perception with.
I think part of the not having someone to share your perception with is mourning the loss of the unrealistic expectation that the perceptions were supposed to be the same, supposed to be equal. I find that in my relationship with my husband at unexpected junctions in life.
nibbler wrote:
…I think for me the most difficult, unfulfilling aspect about our church is the 3 hour block. I’m not talking about length, I’m talking about the scripted, predictable, walled-off nature of the lessons and talks and how the block makes me feel like an outsider. I feel the real church lives outside the 3 hour block.Sorry I can’t be more specific than that, I just wanted to report that I got a much needed reboot the other day.
nibbler, I agree with your statement above. If I sit in Church on Sunday & expect the church to come to me, I will be disappointed & unfulfilled.
Here are some things I’ve discovered recently:
– I don’t go to Gospel Doctrine class. I like Family History & the Bishop has given me permission to do one on one training on my laptop in a side classroom.
– When no one comes, my friends will come in & we will have our own discussions. Usually gospel related.
– Sometimes I will go to the Gospel Essentials class. Not a lot of discussion, but it does stick to the basics.
– PH there is a lot of movement. If it gets boring or I get out of sorts, I move around & it looks normal. With PH being combined, EQ & HP there seems to be less discussion.
– Sacrament meetings are usually good. My definition of good is when you can concentrate on a new idea or scripture that I haven’t read in a while.
– I will read scriptures or read talks on my phone. I will not apologize for doing that.
– I will wave or play with little children that we know. That’s a last resort.
We usually get to church 30-45 minutes early & talk to members of the other ward. For me, the 3 hours seem to go quickly.
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