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http://journeyofloyaldissent.wordpress.com/2013/04/06/6/ I post this to the mods & admins because it is being discussed in MoSto FB and elsewhere, and will doubtless inform people’s views who come here. A few quick observations I had from the article:
Quote:“He clarified that they had read my book, An Insider’s View of Mormon Origins, and had concluded that the LDS Church was not true; was not what it claimed to be.”
I think he could add this to the book jacket, right?
Quote:“The GA often went to the MormonThink.com website for information”
so clearly, a man of discernment.
Quote:“Upon entering my home for the first meeting the GA said, “We are here to learn.”
from you, o wise one.
Quote:“He said that it takes about two to three years before the new apostle discovers that the church is not true.”
Note that he says “discovers,” not “concludes.” These little word choices are revealing.
Quote:“The one million dollar gift, plus their totally obedient attitude makes it easy for them to go along when they find out the church is not true. For these reasons and others, he doesn’t expect any apostle to ever expose the truth about the foundational claims.”
Because we all know that a conspiracy will never leak even if dozens of people are in on it. Wait, maybe they are drugging the ones that might leak it . . .
Quote:“none of the apostles ever said to him directly that they did not believe; but that it was his opinion based on “my interactions with them.””
Right. But he’s telling GP that none of them believe because he (the GA) doesn’t believe.
Quote:“I said that if the apostles know the church is not true and yet order a disciplinary hearing for my writing a book that is almost certainly true regarding the foundational claims of the church, then they are corrupt even evil. He replied, “That’s right!”
So a GA who believes Palmer and not the church also thinks the leaders are evil & corrupt (but has no firsthand knowledge that they don’t believe, just a hunch) – this is the source?
Quote:” When it does, he said, the members are going to be “shocked” and will need scholars/historians like me to educate them regarding the Mormon past.”
So the Q12 are corrupted by $1M and GP is corrupted by promises of future job security? Notice how much of this write up is brought about to bolster GP’s position and victimhood.
Quote:“The GA is a man of integrity and very loving. Upon leaving each time, he always gives me a big hug.”
Man crush! Lots of members say the same about the Q12. Apparently we can be bought with a hug or handshake.
So let me now go on record to say, though, that despite all this, I do believe there’s underlying truth to much of what he is saying. I just think he’s desperately glommed onto it and magnified it to justify his own position of blameless victim. Specifically, I do believe that if you were a Q12 member and didn’t “believe” (or believe ALL of it anyway), you might still encourage people to believe it if that is what comforts them and leads to their best life choices. I don’t laud that decision, but I could see it as justifiable in someone’s mind.
Any thoughts?
I have a really hard time with Palmer for the foundational reasons you highlight – and I just don’t believe his core assertions about what the Q12 believe – that they believe “it isn’t true”. I believe they are much less black-and-white as a group than most members realize, but I don’t believe they are non-believing. Classy. His expose’ starts with a story about these guys visiting him under the condition that he not identify them or tell any stories that might reveal who they are … and then he goes right into telling stories about all these meetings. How can GA’s or Apostles “discover” that the church isn’t true? They could stop believing in it, sure. I can buy that. But there’s no proof one way or another for most religious foundational claims or dogmatic assertions … and I am saying that as pretty much a non-believing person. Some of the ideas in Mormonism people have are not true: prophets are infallible, leaders can never lead you astray, some of the stories in the early church we repeat as history, etc.
But the nature of God, what happens in the afterlife, the purpose of this life, what is a prophet, what is the mind and will of God at any moment, what are the eternal and unchangeable truths of the universe? Those are all theological questions with no ultimate answer to “discover” once and for all.
To me, Palmer’s a wishful thinker. Note how much of this justifies his position as victim. My view of the truthfulness is that I believe there are a 70 and a MP who disbelieve, but they are seeking confirming evidence of their own views among the Q12. They don’t have the inside scoop on te Q12. I have heard before the thing about the junior ones being told to defer to the older. I also wouldn’t be totally shocked at the 1M to discharge your debts and obligations. I seriously doubt the Q12 are in on some all out conspiracy. They may, however, not share the correlated and white washed view historically presented in manuals. I hope they know better than that! John Dehlin did an interview with Brian Hales where Hales refutes many of Grant Palmer’s claims about Joseph Smith’s polygamy with underage girls. I think Hales position debunks a lot of Palmer’s claims. Go, David Twede: http://mormondisclosures.blogspot.sg/2013/04/rumor-rumor-every-where-nor-any-fact-to.html This is a pretty good overview of the Palmer claims and what’s believable / likely and what’s not so much.
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