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Arrakeen wrote:
Minyan Man wrote:
Another aspect I need to clarify, from my experience (for what it’s worth), groups (branches, wards or stakes)that reside close to a college or university setting seem to be more “progressive” or tolerant of opposing views
or opinions. This is a generalization I know that doesn’t always work.
In my experience though BYU is quite lacking in diversity compared to other university wards. Part of my problem might be that over the last few years I’ve only been in BYU student wards, where I really don’t fit in. One ward was particularly rough for me since almost everyone was a recent RM gushing about how wonderful their mission was and still not over the spiritual “high”. And I was the one who hated his mission.
The ward I grew up in was quite diverse, and it was great. It was probably one of the most diverse wards in the church. We had members from Canada, Italy, Brazil, Mexico, Ghana, Taiwan, and then about half the ward was from Cambodia. And of course we had some Utah Mormons mixed in as well. There were Democrats and Republicans, and there were members who were very rich, very poor, and everything in between. It was more the kind of environment where if you showed up, you were welcome. And it made it a lot of fun, we had tons of activities for the cultural celebrations of the various places represented in our ward. And our potlucks could not be beat.
BYU/Utah County (as well as Utah State/Logan/Cache Valley) are definitely exceptions to the university and diversity of thought rule. MM and I are speaking from the perspective of living outside the Corridor where even in general college towns have more diversity of thought than the surrounding areas. I live in a pretty conservative area (way more Trump flags than Biden signs) but the college town (and it is a very liberal college) is completely different.
Arrakeen wrote:
Roy wrote:
A second part of this is that if you have served a mission then you have already dedicated significant resources to being part of the group. You are a native Mormon and do not feel lost, confused, or bewildered by all the quirks, acronyms, or shared cultural memories. That is a significant advantage to being part of the group. I like to think of the “Jack Mormons.” They may not attend church and they may not be living according to church standards but they still belong … they are still “Mormons” for as long as they choose to be associated. You belong too!
I think this is part of my struggle. I’m at a point where I don’t really believe in any of the doctrines of the church. I’ve considered just “burning it all down” by leaving the church and trying to just forget everything about the church to get away from some of my traumatic experiences. But, in the end I’m still very much Mormon. I’ve never had alcohol, coffee, or tea and doubt I would enjoy them anyway. I don’t have any clue how to swear even if I wanted to. In many ways I still see the world through a Mormon lens. Who I am is influenced very much by my Mormon upbringing, and by throwing out the bad things I would likely end up throwing away a lot of good things as well.
So now I’m trying to find some way to reconcile my Mormon identity with no longer believing or participating in a lot of the religion.
This is the thing we talk about here sometimes as “dumping all at once” or the more proverbial throwing out the baby with the bath water. When you get rid of some of the weirder stuff (WoW for example) our church doctrine isn’t much different from any other Christian church (and even the Baptists don’t drink/smoke but we have other differences). it’s easiest for me to think of my faith as a building which came crashing down in the faith crisis. When I did recognize that I still believed there is a God I could begin rebuilding on that foundation. There are some parts of the old building I have salvaged/reused. There are some new parts that weren’t part of the old building. There are parts of the old building that have been hauled to the dump. And there is some rubble left that I haven’t figured out yet and will someday get hauled away or reused. A key to all of it was learning to recognize that the church and the gospel are not one-in-the-same. I believe in the gospel much in the same way other Christians do. The church does contain many good Christian teachings and principles and many good people. I have a sometimes tenuous relationship with the church – but I look at things through the gospel lens, not the church lens. Although an adult convert, the church is more cultural than religious for me which is a whole other can of worms.
SamBee wrote:
[Divorce in the church sucks. I have a friend “Joe” who is not yet divorced (thanks to Covid issues slowing down the legal system), but should have by now. But wagging tongues are always a problem. For example, one inactive member went told me that “Joe” had committed adultery. I had to point out to him in no uncertain terms that not every divorce was due to adultery!!!
Divorce does suck. I went through that, and my ex started rumors around the stake I had been unfaithful which were lies, it wasn’t a fun time in the church for me.
I also got the “not being true to your covenants” from a Bishop and member of the SP. I think that was about them because that made sense to them, otherwise, why were we having marital troubles? It made sense to them that it was because of something.
But as I stayed in the church and served and was a good dad and did my best to volunteer to help others, some people were good to me.
Sometimes I would open up about my questions and doubts…how it can be hard to do everything right and still see families fall apart….I mean, where were the blessings of protection promised?
I found many people identified with my testimony. It wasn’t clean and neat and perfect. I shared vulnerabilities. Many people privately told me their stories, or those of their relatives, in support of me and my story, encouraging me to not give up.
I found out that many people who you think are nice true blue mormon families, are often struggling with their own things in life and identify with imperfect testimonies more than rock solid ones. Everyone has their own experience.
Some TBMs use too broad of a brush to paint anyone that is not 100% committed to the faith, but sometimes those who do not believe paint the TBMs with an equally large brush, and both sides are unfair to individual variation within the faith. Motes and beams, I guess. We should check our own eyes too.
I think God accepts us as we are with our hearts striving to find goodness and happiness in life. And there are multiple paths to get there. Some paths look wrong to other people, because they don’t understand. And that’s ok.
Is Aesop’s fable of the man, the boy, and the donkey…there was no fitting in with any crowd during the whole journey. It is good for us to accept that, and decide for ourselves what we want and not be foolish in trying to force it, but realize that with social groups, there will always be different opinions.
If there is a feeling of not fitting in at church, you ask yourself what you get out of it and why it is important to go. Regardless of how others use the religion…what is it to you and what value is there for you to be there? Focus on that, and the rest fades in the shadows.
Well said Heber I am unmarried, and one of the major deterrents other than my failure with relationships, is divorce. I often think I prefer to be miserable single than miserable and married, because that is so much more complex. Of course, I’d love to be happily married (emphasis on happy) with a wife who was my lover, my companion, my friend etc… I have finished a couple of relationships this year – one was baffling to me, and the other fizzled out. The latter is the first relationship I’ve had with someone I’ve never met, and I find that very strange. Usually it’s men who complain women are hard to work out. With me, it’s the opposite way round. Unfortunately this leads to misunderstanding, which is not good in a marriage.
But I still get puzzled looks from people when I say I haven’t married. That’s another form of not fitting in. I regret not being in a happy marriage, but I don’t regret not being in an unhappy one.
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