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I thought about this question while watching “Eyes Wide Shut” (1999) starring Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman. There is something about masks that seems to be mystically disturbing, even occult, and I can easily see how some people would associate the wearing of masks with Satanic influence. Eyes Wide Shut, R rated, tut tut. (Yes I’ve seen it) As I’ve said elsewhere I’ve always found the notion of churches celebrating Halloween a little odd and hypocritical.
Halloween bump in March. 🙂 1) I think the only reason the no masks policy exists is for safety. With a no mask policy everyone knows who everyone is. Also masks obscure vision, which can be a dangerous thing as children run around a church parking lot to collect candy.
2) I do not see Halloween as evil in the slightest. Halloween, like everything, has evolved. Are children thinking about worshiping satan or are they thinking about trick-or-treating? It’s a fun time for children to get candy and a time where people can dress in a costume and not come across as being a complete weirdo. As far as dressing up as evil things… what’s more evil, dressing up as the wolfman (which doesn’t even exist) or dressing up as a CEO that takes home a multi-million dollar bonus check while his employees eke out a living?
If people dressed up in order to be anonymous as they carried out their crimes that would be one thing, but mostly people dress up for the lulz and to help people in their neighborhoods be charitable with their candy.
3) I don’t see it as being any different than Christmas. Christmas similarly has roots in pagan worship. Christmas similarly evolved to be something else entirely. We can focus on what it was or what it is. Same thing with Easter.
nibbler wrote:Halloween bump in March.
🙂 1) I think the only reason the no masks policy exists is for safety. With a no mask policy everyone knows who everyone is. Also masks obscure vision, which can be a dangerous thing as children run around a church parking lot to collect candy.
2) I do not see Halloween as evil in the slightest. Halloween, like everything, has evolved. Are children thinking about worshiping satan or are they thinking about trick-or-treating? It’s a fun time for children to get candy and a time where people can dress in a costume and not come across as being a complete weirdo. As far as dressing up as evil things… what’s more evil, dressing up as the wolfman (which doesn’t even exist) or dressing up as a CEO that takes home a multi-million dollar bonus check while his employees eke out a living?
If people dressed up in order to be anonymous as they carried out their crimes that would be one thing, but mostly people dress up for the lulz and to help people in their neighborhoods be charitable with their candy.
3) I don’t see it as being any different than Christmas. Christmas similarly has roots in pagan worship. Christmas similarly evolved to be something else entirely. We can focus on what it was or what it is. Same thing with Easter.
Yep, I’m not superstitious. So I don’t see or feel anything inside that would create a “evil” about Halloween or mask.
It’s all inside a person anyway. It’s what a mind tested out of nothing without understanding.
There are and have been a my rid of customs, very misunderstood. This is much like the black cat superstition.
I aware of the “stories” of paganism. I’m aware of the stores changing and created to discredit other religions through time.
Their is smoke evidence to show this. This is one of them. A person will pick which one they want to believe. Believing in hope, but also knowing the condition of being “human” I can see where others would create scare origin stores to scare you off. Much like the ill fated ouija board which is nothing more then producing the
ideomotor effect. Or tarot cards or other things which mean and do absolutely nothing except for what a person wants to believe it does. I’m really tired of hearing that “pagans” or their traditions are bad or satanic when in light of nearly all church history the same thing could be said about us or Muslims or any Christians or Buddhist etc.
I know there are some people who do actually worship
Satan but no holiday or celebration is inherently evil. It’s like arguing that a knife is evil, it’s not the knife or holiday or it’s “history” that’s of any importance. It’s what you do with it. You can take anything and celebrate anything regardless of its origin and make it good. Look at the history of Christmas. It isn’t what you see now, I’m
Not talking about the commercialization. I’m
Talking about the history of Xmas is in drinking heavily and being sexually free. That’s how it was traditionally celebrated, it really didn’t have much to do with remembering Christ.
In fact that’s how the modern police got formed was from Europeans that moved to New York and chili rated Xmas in the traditional style and it got excess and out if control and the need and formation of the modern police force came in response to that.
The history of anything has no bearing on its properties. It just matters how you use it that counts and makes it good or bad.
I heard, probably 35 years ago, that the tradition of no masks dates back to early church times, when knowing who was in your presence was a very important matter. I like the concept from a pure safety-around-children approach. The reality is that people who can act with complete anonymity are far more likely to act outside their normal social constraints. Ergo, I support the custom. nibbler wrote:Halloween bump in March.
🙂 1) I think the only reason the no masks policy exists is for safety. With a no mask policy everyone knows who everyone is. Also masks obscure vision, which can be a dangerous thing as children run around a church parking lot to collect candy.
2) I do not see Halloween as evil in the slightest. Halloween, like everything, has evolved. Are children thinking about worshiping satan or are they thinking about trick-or-treating? It’s a fun time for children to get candy and a time where people can dress in a costume and not come across as being a complete weirdo. As far as dressing up as evil things… what’s more evil, dressing up as the wolfman (which doesn’t even exist) or dressing up as a CEO that takes home a multi-million dollar bonus check while his employees eke out a living?
If people dressed up in order to be anonymous as they carried out their crimes that would be one thing, but mostly people dress up for the lulz and to help people in their neighborhoods be charitable with their candy.
3) I don’t see it as being any different than Christmas. Christmas similarly has roots in pagan worship. Christmas similarly evolved to be something else entirely. We can focus on what it was or what it is. Same thing with Easter.
I thought maybe I had commented on this thread but it must have been a similar one. I agree with you, Nibbler – there is nothing about Halloween that has anything to do with Satan worship in the eyes of almost all children or their parents. It’s about trick-or-treat and candy, and in our little town it is an incredible social time – really, we’re all outside (unless it’s really cold) and talking to neighbors we otherwise don’t see very often. It is in my mind very much like Christmas and Easter as you say. I’m not sure the church policy is in place because of a safety concern, though, I think it’s a holdover from one of the many traditions some of our early leaders brought with them from Protestantism and imposed upon the church.
No prohibition against masks at our local trunk-or-treat. It starts around 4pm and is over by 5:30. Still plenty of natural light and lots of adult supervision. There is a prohibition against cross-dressing (not that I think it matters to the swarms of neigborhood kids that descend upon us). Halloween is not Christmas, Easter or May Day (Beltane). It’s a different beast, and represents both a celebration of evil, and darkness, and its practise – “trick”. Even though I come from a Celtic background, there’s something deeply unpleasant about Halloween that I can’t say for the other festivals. Unlike Christmas and Easter, no Christian element can be found in it anymore.
Roy wrote:No prohibition against masks at our local trunk-or-treat. It starts around 4pm and is over by 5:30. Still plenty of natural light and lots of adult supervision. There is a prohibition against cross-dressing (not that I think it matters to the swarms of neigborhood kids that descend upon us).
Masks and cross dressing are both prohibited in the GHI.
SamBee wrote:Halloween is not Christmas, Easter or May Day (Beltane). It’s a different beast, and represents both a celebration of evil, and darkness, and its practise – “trick”.
Even though I come from a Celtic background, there’s something deeply unpleasant about Halloween that I can’t say for the other festivals. Unlike Christmas and Easter, no Christian element can be found in it anymore.
We’re not talking ancient origins here, Sambee. When I was a kid growing up in a non-religious home Christmas was all about presents and to some extent family (who brought more presents). I knew there was a religious part of it but I didn’t know or care about those details and they weren’t discussed in our home. Likewise, Easter was about the Easter Bunny, candy and coloring eggs. Again, I neither knew nor cared about the religious aspect. Halloween was about dressing up and getting candy. I wasn’t even aware there was any religious aspect or satanic aspect to the holiday until I was in my 20s. I realize that many kids do know of the religious part of Christmas and Easter, and I also know the secular parts celebrated by the religious and non-religious people I know in similar ways (gifts, candy, etc.). I wager that far fewer kids know of the “evil” side of Halloween and probably almost none know of it’s origins, even though they may dress as devils or witches – it’s just part of the tradition in their eyes, but not Satan worship. I understand why you dislike the holiday and why you are so opposed to it – but honestly I think you are in a minority because the vast majority of people are not celebrating the ancient holiday, rather they are celebrating the modern secular version – just as they do Christmas and Easter.
Halloween is about candy – yes, demanding it from total strangers or threatening to damage their property – and about dressing up as ax murderers, zombies, vampires, werewolves and all kinds of other scary things whose main purpose is to slice up humanity – not appropriate in a church. Remember small children can be terrified by little things like this and not in a good way. Christmas is essentially a capitalist festival now, and a fairly tacky one, but at least its tacky aspects don’t scare the crap out of children.
And Christian aspects of Christmas are still out there, if you care to look.
SamBee wrote:Halloween is about candy – yes, demanding it from total strangers or threatening to damage their property – and about dressing up as ax murderers, zombies, vampires, werewolves and all kinds of other scary things whose main purpose is to slice up humanity – not appropriate in a church. Remember small children can be terrified by little things like this and not in a good way.
Christmas is essentially a capitalist festival now, and a fairly tacky one, but at least its tacky aspects don’t scare the crap out of children.
And Christian aspects of Christmas are still out there, if you care to look.
Again Sambee, to me and my peers growing up “trick or treat” was just a phrase, it was what you said at the door instead of “may I please have some candy” – we didn’t know what it meant Where I live, pranks or “damaging property” or whatever are not part of the whole thing. There certainly are people who don’t take part – only about half the houses on my street do and none of them in the 20 years I have been here have ever been vandalized because they didn’t give any treats – even the one who does participate but refuses to give treats to kids who are obviously 16 and not dressed in any costume. I do agree that some small children could be scared by some costumes, but on the other hand I don’t see kids running down the street screaming when they saw one, and I have seen kids scream and run away from clowns (I never really got why clowns are scarey to some people). I know our schools (yes, we still have Holloween parties complete with a parade at school) and the church does ban grotesque or particularly scarey costumes and that there has never been an issue with that. My opinion here, Sambee, is that you’re attempting to make something appear much worse than it actually is simply because you don’t like the idea. If you don’t like it, don’t participate – but let others exercise their free agency to do so, there really is no harm being done.
I agree that all Christian aspects of Christmas are there if you look – and many don’t look (including me until I was in my 20s). If you look very closely you will also see that devout Catholics also see the religious aspect of Halloween as the day before All Saints Day.
DarkJedi wrote:Masks and cross dressing are both prohibited in the GHI.
I didn’t know that. I wonder if my ward is more lax because the event is held outside with a large influx of non-member kids. Or maybe we just didn’t get the memo.
I know quite a few people who feel very strongly about this topic – on both side of the discussion. None of them I know are going to change their minds about it, no matter what is said by anyone. Just saying.
Curtis wrote:I know quite a few people who feel very strongly about this topic – on both side of the discussion. None of them I know are going to change their minds about it, no matter what is said by anyone.
Just saying.
I realize that, also Curtis, and Sambee and I have had this discussion before. I am fine with agreeing to disagree, and Sambee is still my friend.
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