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is the level of sacrifice and commitment for the organization what will be required of me for eternity?
I don’t believe “the organization” exists in the next life, so my own answer to that question is simple.
Hmmm…the same sociality that exists here, will exist there…except we will be perfect….or so goes my memory. There will undoubtedly be some kind of organization there, and based upon our experience in this life, I suspect there will be similarities as we prepare for that kind of life…imagine, and eternally long meetingplace full of chairs that need to be set up… “Sociality” is not the same thing as “society” or “organization” as it is used in that quote. Sociality is defined as two things:
Quote:2. the action on the part of individuals of associating together in communities.
3. the state or quality of being social.
So, “the same sociality” simply means we won’t suddenly turn into Beings who thrive on isolation and want nothing to do with each other – that we will continue to “associate together”.
Society is defined, in the way you are implying, as:
Quote:a highly structured system of human organization for large-scale community living that normally furnishes protection, continuity, security, and a national identity for its members: American society.
Thus, “sociality” is the instinct or tendency to associate, while “society”, as you are using it, is a specific form or system of association.
I don’t believe what you just typed is what it will be like (that the exact organizational structure – the specific society – will exist in the next life), and I’m pretty sure you don’t either – so I’ll disengage now.
I hope I’m wrong, but your last comment implies I have some kind of underlying motive which led me to saying something I don’t actually believe — which isn’t the case. Frankly we don’t have a lot of evidence of what the social structure will be like based on the reads I’ve done. We know it is described as glorious, and blessed beyond other fates that await the less faithful, in the presence of the Father. There have been statements about the physical nature of heaven but the actual nature of the organization doesnt’ seem well articulated in the canon.
But in the absence of any clear statement of what the organization will be like, I suspect it will be bureaucratic, as that is the nature of the Kindgom on earth meant to help us prepare for eternal life. There will likely be a lot of people there given the number of people who have lived and died on the earth, which usually leads to some kind of set of bureaucratic culture or system. Obedience, self-sacrifice for the Kingdom will likely be expected as it is now.
We also have the pattern of execution for creating the world we see in the temple as possible indication of the kind of organization that exists in heaven. It was characterized by obedience and instructions carried out in exactness — not by personal creativity.
Someone once said recently we run the hamster wheel for the invisible cheese known as eternal life. I agree with him in that we really don’t know what we are going to inherit some day. Just promises it’ll be pretty cool by the author of the scriptures intimating such.
In the end, I don’t know really what it will be like, but an authoritative, obedient structure seems most likely to me based on the scriptures we have and my extensive experience in the Kingdom on earth.
However, perhaps there is hope — if we believe that man progresses to be as God, could it mean that the hierarchical, authoritarian approach of our current Church is simply a reflection of His personal style of leadership? And could it mean that someone like me who dislikes heavy structure, values creativity and innovation, (if eventually exhalted and like God) would bring to pass “the immortality and eternal life of man” using a much different leadership style than we experience on this earth?…but again…who knows.
I know that I don’t naturally thrive in the Kingdom on earth unless the local leadership is way flexible or even disregards certain rules that stifle passion and creativity. This happened in one Ward in my twenties, and it was phenomenal. I played guitar and sang a Garth Brooks Christmas song in sacrament meeting. We held Sacrament meeting in the woods on a camping trip that spanned Sunday with the Young Men. Young men passed the sacrament without wearing white shirts and ties, and it was one of the best communities I belonged to in the Church — spiritual, engaging, fun, righteous etcetera. It was probably the most effective period in my life in the Church.
The thought of eternal life in a society characterized by authority, structure, obedience, and mechanistic processes doesn’t do much for me, frankly.
Quote:your last comment implies I have some kind of underlying motive which led me to saying something I don’t actually believe
Sometimes I hate this type of communication and the mis-perceptions it can create. That thought never crossed my mind.
I just have a hard time envisioning becoming like God meaning being a cog in an eternal wheel – and I choose to accept the idea of becoming like God, since everything else just doesn’t do anything for me.
Good example of how Mormon theology breaks down when you look at it criticaly. That is if you take it literally If we are all “Kings and Queens”, then King and Queen doesn’t have much meaning. King over whom? Other Kings? Brown wrote:If we are all “Kings and Queens”, then King and Queen doesn’t have much meaning. King over whom? Other Kings?
Two answers depending on your perspective:
1) That through the Patriarchal Order of the priesthood you will preside over your posterity in a position of honor and love forever. In this example “King” is comparable to “Father” and “Queen” can be supplanted by the title of “Mother.” So Yes, you may be the King/Father of other King/Fathers.
2) To be a king over all those that fail to achieve your glory. I personally do not think that our eternal success status needs to be defined by how many people are below us.
Cadence wrote:Good example of how Mormon theology breaks down when you look at it criticaly. That is if you take it literally
+1
I find it breaks down also. Therefore, I pretty much shrug my shoulders at it, think how I see through the glass darkly, and think that trying to be completely certain about the details is unrealistic.
However, I can find the symbolic or metaphoric view provides me something of value to have faith in and work towards being a good person now in hopes of good things for whatever comes later. I hope for celestial happiness in the eternities, and I like the comparison to the sun, moon and stars as a way to hope for the greatest of them.
Literal kingdoms, sentries preventing people from crossing lines, or anything of that literal nature seems medieval to me. I’m open to it being so, and I’m open to it not being that way at all. Neither impacts my decisions today to be celestial and work to have a celestial family in a search for celestial happiness.
I’m still going to go with “this is what happens when finite creatures try to ponder the infinite”. Our brains go into meltdown and all we can spit out is human ideas like kingdoms and tiers of separation. If we are still doing that kind of stuff in heaven, we didn’t learn what we were supposed to here. cwald wrote:So you tell me – who is in a celestial state of mind, and who is in a terrestrial state of mind? Who is comfortable around whom? Who will/can visit whom and who won’t/can’t visit whom? Just a thought? Maybe the LDS concept of celestial and terrestrial need to be “reevaluated?”
Wow, what irony…
I wonder if they will even be able to leave the carefully controlled, delicate environment of their CK; even if they put on the full armor of God like a space suit?
Brian Johnston wrote:cwald wrote:So you tell me – who is in a celestial state of mind, and who is in a terrestrial state of mind? Who is comfortable around whom? Who will/can visit whom and who won’t/can’t visit whom? Just a thought? Maybe the LDS concept of celestial and terrestrial need to be “reevaluated?”
Wow, what irony…
Yeah. I thought so to.
:eh: As an Introvert who comes from an abusive family background…sometimes the CK sounds more like hell to me. I would want to be with my children, the rest of my family not so much. Even though I have forgiven them, I don’t want to spend eternity around them. I’d rather be an administrating angle to dogs.How screwed up does that make me? Where do I fall in the order of all of this? bound for the lower kingdoms? Why did HF even create me then?
What if family life or marriage is less than Celestial in this life? Does that make you lose hope for even trying for CK?
It seems the story works for some and when things are going well in the family…but what about when it isn’t?
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