Hard time making a decision..

[Anonymous]

Hi,

Thanks everyone for the great responses to my previous question. I hope that is ok I am posting again one more thing.

I am having a big problem right now. I just found out that I am disfellowshipped and have been for 7 years. I knew I was in the beginning but last bishop said I was never disfellowshipped because he couldn’t find anything from Salt Lake or anything that was filed. (Long story) I thought everything was fine though.

So now this new bishop told me I am disfellowshipped and I can’t make up my mind on what to do. I want to get it off but doing so will mean I guess that I have to accept everything in the temple I understand. I don’t know if I can do that. I know as Brian said earlier that God isn’t in the business to collect on contracts like some mafia thug and I think that is true but sometimes I struggle to feel that way at times and I just worry a lot. Don’t you promise when you go to the temple to keep every covenant including tithing? What if I never keep one covenant? I don’t know all the covenants or what they are except tithing and obeying your husband but I don’t understand it. At the same time I figure maybe I can take what I can use and leave the rest and not worry about the temple for now. For me right now I feel like I have only two options..

1. Get it off

2. Stop attending church completely.

When I go to church now I feel bad. I feel that I am not worthy or good enough (in the churches eyes) to take the sacrament, raise my hand, or participate. I feel like I am less than. A failure. But at the same time I do feel like I am just as worthy as anyone there to take the sacrament and participate most the time. After all I have done nothing bad or wrong the last 7 years and now.

Now my bishop has not gotten back to me since he told me I was disfellowshipped and I just worry or feel like he doesn’t care. He said Hi to me today but that was it. Never said he wanted to talk to me or anything since he was over at our home. I have not told anyone at all that I was disfellowshipped and I worry that people would not care about me or would judge me if they knew. Since I have no relationship with my family and no good friends or close friends in the church that are members I feel like this is all hard.

Also, I read online that the church keeps a letter your not allowed to read forever. Does anyone know why or what they write about people that they don’t even want them to know about?

Another problem I am having is I don’t want a council to get un-disfellowshipped. I think it’s wrong. This partly because my husband did the same thing I did but never confessed and was abusive for 6 years and nothing happened to him. I do also feel that the way I was disfellowshipped was totally wrong and even being disfellowshipped may have been wrong. Maybe I am too prideful I don’t know. It’s also scary to think they can just decide or refuse to let me back in if they feel like it. I also don’t think I need to explain myself or saying anything 8 years after the fact or the sin happened. I should also add that my bishop said I needed to seek forgiveness from my parents. (this is my abusive parents who I never did anything wrong to) Also, he did not mean forgive them for being abusive he meant I need to ask them to forgive me. It felt like a slap in the face. Thankfully my next bishop said I could throw the letter in the garbage and did not agree with that bishop.

I feel like the church is the best one out there and I love so many aspects or parts. I love all of it except for the parts I don’t understand. When I think about the parts I don’t understand or make sense to me I feel cautious, fearful, and hesitant. Very hesitant.I feel like after my experience NO ONE would feel good about the temple. And actually there are times when I feel the spirit it does not bother me or upset me but more often than not thinking about it I just think it’s wrong with my lack of education and then I want to leave the church.

Another thing I am worried about is garments. Haven’t worn them in 4 years and don’t plan to ever wear them again. Had some bad experiences with wearing them with my mother and abusive husband. I just don’t feel good about them at all. Do you think I have to wear them to get undisfellowshipped? I am afraid my bishop will say yes and then I will just have to leave the church.

I just hate how much I have gone back and forth constantly. Earlier this week for 3 days I felt like getting it off was right and the best thing. I felt good about it. Now I feel bad again and I just go back and forth.

I have been thinking about meeting with the bishop about it but have been a bit hesitant and afraid and I would rather not even talk to the bishop about all this because I am afraid of what he will say.

Thanks for listening and I look forward to your replies!

[Anonymous]

I think you have a few tracks to run on here:

1. You can go to your bishop and ask what’s expected of you to gain full fellowship again. Just ask for information. Don’t share any doubts, or any unwillingness you might feel, just express your desire to be active in the Ward again, and that the meeting represents your first step in that direction. I wouldn’t say “what about wearing garments, do I have to do that to get my membership back?” — just ask what you need to do in order to get your full membership back so you can take the sacrament, and hold callings etcetera. See what he volunteers about the temple etcetera, but don’t question that area directly. I wouldn’t volunteer any information beyond what he asks you directly.

I don’t think many people can say definitively what he will ask you to do; I find it tends to vary from Bishop to Bishop.

2. You can stay as a disfellowshipped member, participate in meetings as an observer, do service projects, take assignments etcetera. However, I think this would not be very satisfying over the long term.

3. You could leave altogether, but I think this would also NOT be satisfying either given the good things in the Church you like and would be giving up.

Personally, I would brave the meeting with the Bishop. Find out what the next steps are, and then see how you feel after that.

[Anonymous]

Good ideas and thank you. Only one problem is I sense that this bishop already knows my issues with the temple because my husband had a long talk with the new bishop when getting an interview for a calling said a bunch of stuff and also I talked just a little with last bishop. (what was I thinking?! ooops)

Hopefully this bishop won’t require much or say that I have to do much of anything to come back and get it off.

[Anonymous]

I think I might have a hard time if my bishop says something like you have to do this and this first and then make a list of things or ask me temple interview questions to let me get it off.

How many members are in good standing that don’t even go to church, pay tithing, wear garments or do anything. This was my husband for years and they didn’t take away anything from him.

I will be so depressed if this sort of thing happens. It just wouldn’t feel fair. But again I am possibly thinking about it all wrong maybe..

[Anonymous]

mormonmom wrote:

I think I might have a hard time if my bishop says something like you have to do this and this first and then make a list of things or ask me temple interview questions to let me get it off.

In that case, I would indicate that you have some soul searching to do and that you want to be fully active again, but that you need time to get back into the commandments….ask if you can set another appointment with him at some point in the future to talk about your progress, but leave it open as to when that happens.

Then, use the time to decide what you will do next.

If you argue the point about fairness (if he even starts asking TR questions — he may not) I think this will only make him feel you aren’t repentant and the interview will go harder.

Only my opinion though.

[Anonymous]

mormonmom, have you ever received professional counseling help? There are lots of issues from your past with which you still aren’t comfortable – a lot of unresolved baggage that is affecting your view of yourself, others and the Church.

My strongest advice simply would be to get professional help. We can provide perspective and communal support, but we can’t give you the other help you need.

[Anonymous]

Mormonmom, First, I want to let you know how sorry I am for all you have had to go through. My heart breaks that you are hurting so much right now and I will pray for you today.

I agree with Ray that a professional counselor could be of tremendous help to you right now. It is very difficult to deal with people, let alone a bishop or authority figure who has no professional understanding of abuse or difficult situations. I wish leaders were better trained in communication skills, especially those who have to make judgments. I love Steven Covey’s quote on “Seek first to understand, then to be understood.”

Here’s what I do believe that may help you.

1. You are a precious daughter of our Heavenly Father and as a perfect parent God wants to bring you to Him. Jesus taught to leave the 99 to find the one lost sheep. A big party was thrown for the prodigal son. Love is the answer. If a bishop could see you as his own daughter, maybe he would treat you differently. I have a daughter who had a baby out of wedlock, was bi-polar and very difficult. She’s had 3 divorces, 2 boys, and was a stripper for awhile. I was not happy about that, but I showed her twice as much love and concern and it made a difference. She is now happily married, has two boys that are terrific, and is a foster parent to a wonderful two year old she is adopting.

2. I know that God looketh upon the heart of man. Sounds like you have suffered quite enough abuse in your life and God certainly understands your situations. My dear friend from Denmark, whom I helped bring to the church 6 years ago, has had such a difficult time with church authority figures because of his childhood abuse. His parents were church going, well respected people in the community who beat and raped him and his sisters for years until social services finally found out about it. It’s taken 900 hours of therapy to help him through it and still has anxiety attacks when feeling threatened.

3. Remember that it is Satan, not God that wants you to feel like crap about yourself. My gay son was so self-loathing as a teen in the church because of what he heard some leaders say about gays. Simply because you are a human being with feelings makes you of great worth and don’t let anyone put you down.

Bridget

[Anonymous]

Mormonmom, Bridget has given you such heavenly and loving words. I hope they are nourishing to your soul.

mormonmom wrote:

I just found out that I am disfellowshipped and have been for 7 years.

Wow! That’s quite a shocker, I bet.

mormonmom wrote:

Don’t you promise when you go to the temple to keep every covenant including tithing?

Strictly speaking, no. In the bishop’s office you state whether or not you are a full tithe payer; no promise. In the temple the word tithing is not spoken, but you make a four covenants–Obedience, Sacrifice, Chastity, and Consecration. The first is a covenant to obey the law of God and keep His commandments. The second is a covenant to sacrifice everything you possess, even your own life if necessary, in sustaining and defending the kingdom of God. The fourth is a covenant to consecrate your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the LDS Church for the building up of the kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion.

mormonmom wrote:

What if I never keep one covenant?

It’s not clear to me what you are asking. Are you asking what your LDS membership status will be? Are you asking what will be your status in the eyes of heaven? You will always be a precious jewel in the eyes of heaven, I promise you that.

I confess I know next to nothing about disfellowshipment, but I don’t think there are any covenants involved in restoring fellowship.

mormonmom wrote:

I don’t know all the covenants or what they are except tithing and obeying your husband but I don’t understand it.

I listed for you above the temple covenants. There is no covenant involving tithing, though tithing could be considered a lesser law compared to the covenant laws of Sacrifice and Consecration.

Women in the temple do make a different Obedience covenant than do men. Before 1990, the women did covenant to obey the law of their husbands and abide by his counsel in righteousness. Since 1990, the women covenant to obey the law of God (or Elohim) and to hearken to the counsel of their husbands as their husbands hearken to the counsel of the Father. IMHO, the covenant is still sexist, but is much less scary.

mormonmom wrote:

At the same time I figure maybe I can take what I can use and leave the rest and not worry about the temple for now.

This is a good point. Is the temple necessarily a part of restoring your membership status?

mormonmom wrote:

When I go to church now I feel bad.

I’m really sorry about that. I want you to feel happy. It sounds to me like going to church is somehow important or special to you. Otherwise I might suggest you take some time off. Do you have a loved one, perhaps a nearby friend or brother or sister with whom you could attend church? Would it strengthen you to visit your local UU or Episcopalian church occasionally?

mormonmom wrote:

Also, I read online that the church keeps a letter your not allowed to read forever. Does anyone know why or what they write about people that they don’t even want them to know about?

Sadly, I don’t know about this. In my experience in the ward, the membership record indicates your disciplinary status, and your bishop can communicate with other bishops. I also have heard of a secret file, but I don’t know that it really exists.

mormonmom wrote:

Another problem I am having is I don’t want a council to get un-disfellowshipped. I think it’s wrong.

Unfortunately, Elder Ballard said, your “current bishop or stake president has the authority to convene a new disciplinary council to consider what action needs to be taken—even if the person is now living in a new ward or stake or if a new bishopric or stake presidency is now serving.” It sounds like you are stuck with that.

mormonmom wrote:

This partly because my husband did the same thing I did but never confessed and was abusive for 6 years and nothing happened to him. I do also feel that the way I was disfellowshipped was totally wrong and even being disfellowshipped may have been wrong. Maybe I am too prideful I don’t know.

This is very sad. This is the part that you need to work through, perhaps with a professional counselor. Coming to peace with the injustice in the world is a difficult thing.

mormonmom wrote:

It’s also scary to think they can just decide or refuse to let me back in if they feel like it. I also don’t think I need to explain myself or saying anything 8 years after the fact or the sin happened.

I can’t address the rest of your message right now. But I want to validate this last statement. My wish for you is that you come to have faith in yourself and your beloved status in the eyes of heaven. You can become strong and loving. Hang in there and be brave. Be brave to follow your bliss. Be brave to do the thing you think “I just couldn’t do.” Be brave to be free. Be brave to let go and live and love and give.

[Anonymous]

I agree that professional counseling seems warranted. Your bishop may refer you to LDS social services and offer fast offering funds to help pay counseling costs if needed.

A council (bishopric) in your current ward needs to convene in order to restore your full fellowship. The council that initiated the disfellowship would have likely have delineated the conditions needed for your return to fellowship. Since it has been so long, this information (contained in a letter you should have received a copy of) may be lost. I don’t know of any secret letter. I think everything is copied to you. I would think that just asking your bishop about what you need to do in order to regain full fellowship is a good first step if that’s what you want to do. I don’t know whether or not garment wearing would be a condition the current council might impose. It’s possible since you are an endowed member. I wouldn’t mention it. I don’t THINK temple worthiness would be a condition for full fellowship either. The point of disfellowship is supposed to be to help repentence. You mention you’ve been away from the sin, whatever it was, for about seven years. That seems like a long time. I would guess that most bishops and councils would feel that your spiritual growth would best be helped by having full fellowship. At this point, what IS the point of remaining disfellowshipped? That might be a question to ask your bishop.

Something else to remember, a current council would not need to know WHY you were disfellowshipped. Your bishop might know if he has spoken to previous bishops, but there is a very good chance he does not know and would not need to know. The point of the current council would be to help restore the fellowship blessings to you, not to dwell on something you’ve already repented of and certainly not to rehash painful old wounds. Even temple recommend questions don’t ask us to list our previous sins. Bishops don’t care to know all the stuff we did wrong in the past… just how we’re doing now. I’ve been on councils restoring fellowship and had no clue what sins the person committed. If the bishop knew, he didn’t say. The point was: how are they doing now?

Council members would obviously need to know just a little about the sin or misdeed on councils that are consider the sanctions, but they are only given this information during the meeting and held to strict confidence. The handbook has pretty explicit directions about these procedures.

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