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I came across this thread from a few months ago concerning “The Great Disappointment”. This is something that I have been studying closely over the past few months and would love to open up for discussion again. http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=840 Some points to ponder…. We are told Christ will come like a “Thief in the night”. When I think of a thief in the night, I think of someone who comes quietly, leaves, and his presence was not realized until the next morning, long after he is gone.
I think about when Jesus Christ was last on this Earth. Very few accepted him. He was not at all what his people were expecting, he was a carpenter from a podunk town and was rejected by the majority. It was probably at least a couple hundred years before people began to accept and realize who he was. Now look at his following today!
“When the Savior shall appear we shall see him as he is. We shall see that he is a man like ourselves.” D&C 130:1
“But behold, verily, verily, I say unto you that mine eyes are upon you.
I am in your midst and you can not see me” D&C 37:7 “Jesus has been upon the earth a great more times than you are aware of. When Jesus makes his next appearance upon the earth,
but few in this churchwill be prepared to receive him” Brigham Young; Journal of Discourse Do you believe that when Christ comes again that he will literally ascend from the clouds with angels blowing their trumpets. I love this image, but I have always had a hard time wrapping my head around it. Could the the clouds be a symbol? Maybe a symbol for confusion. Christ will return during a time of great religions confusion. It seems logical that he may return the same way he did the first time. As a baby… then a man among his people. JS (among many other religious leaders) did a lot of prophesying of the imminent return of Christ.
“There are those of the rising generation who shall not taste death til Christ comes.” JS, General Conference
Apr 6 1843“When the Savior shall appear we shall see him as he is. We shall see that he is a man like ourselves… And a white stone is given to each of those who come into the celestial kingdom, thereon is a new name written, which no man knoweth save he that receiveth it. The new name is the key word. I prophesy, in the name of the Lord God, that the commencement of the difficulties which will cause much bloodshed previous to the coming of the Son of Man will be in South Carolina. It may probably arise through the slave question. This a voice declared to me, while I was praying earnestly on the subject, December 25th, 1832. (civil war)
I was once praying very earnestly to know the time of the coming of the Son of Man when I heard a voice repeat the following: Joseph, my son,
if thou livest until thou art eighty-five years old, thou shalt see the face of the Son of Man.”-D&C 130 It seems that JS was fully expecting Christ to come soon as was preparing the saints for His arrival. Has he come? After his death the new focus of the church changed to survival, relocation and growth. We are told that few will be prepared and recognize Christ when he comes. If we just follow the masses (the Church?) it seems to reason we might not be one of those few. Maybe he has already come and gone and it will be another hundred years before anyone realizes it. Just something to think about.
The reason I ask these questions is because as I have told you, I have spent the last few months studying the Baha’i faith, and how it possibly relates to ours. The Baha’i’s believe Christ (Baha’u’llah) has already returned 150 years ago and we are currently in process of setting up His kingdom. The idea sounded crazy at first, but the more I read the more I wonder if this is what JS was trying to prepare us for. Many Baha’i’s who have studied Mormonism (or were once LDS) view JS as kind of like Samuel the Lamanite. The Lords delegate in the West, to prophesy of Christs coming in the East. They believe he was a great seer, because many of the dates he spoke of coincide perfectly with the events happening in the east.
I will give examples from JS and the scriptures along with a timeline of Baha’i events in a later post if you are interested. Right now my family is needing me to get off the computer! Studying the lives of The Bab and Baha’u’llah has been so fascinating. I couldn’t believe I knew nothing of them before. I am just throwing all this craziness out there to see if any of you think I may be on to something. I am just a seeker of truth, and I am open to all possibilities!
Good thread, Flowerdrops! My answer is emphatically No, we have not missed Christ’s return. Jesus made it very clear that his second coming would be obvious and known to all:
“So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the desert,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For
as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.” (Matt. 24:26-27) When he said he would come like a “thief in the night”, he simply meant that his second coming would be unexpected. Take note of this verse which makes his meaning clear: “If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. So you also must be ready, because
the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.” (Matt. 24:43-44). MapleLeaf wrote:For
as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.” (Matt. 24:26-27) I didn’t realize that the Bible says “lightning” I have always heard the JS translation of Matthew.
“For as the light of the morning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west, and covereth the whole earth, so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.”When I read the JS version I think of his arriving in the East, and just as the sun rises, his influence will eventually reach the West and fill the whole Earth with his warmth. Whereas lightning is a quick flash that can be seen by all. Hmmmmm. MapleLeaf wrote:Jesus made it very clear that his second coming would be obvious and known to all:
I’m not so sure that Jesus did make it that clear that his return would be obvious to everyone. It kind of depends on what you read, how you interpret it, and who you listen to. At any rate, it is interesting to ponder.
flowerdrops wrote:I’m not so sure that Jesus did make it that clear that his return would be obvious to everyone. It kind of depends on what you read, how you interpret it, and who you listen to. At any rate, it is interesting to ponder.
It definitely is interesting.
Here are some more reasons why I think the Second Coming will be obvious to all:
Jesus says, “They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.” (Matthew 24:30-31)
Paul says, “For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.” (1 Thessalonians 4:16)
Jesus will appear a) In the sky, b) with power and glory, and c) with lots of noise.
I am interested in the Baha’i beliefs, but from what I understand they are not consistent with Jesus’ teachings on this point.
flowerdrops wrote:I didn’t realize that the Bible says “lightning”
I always thought it was lightning until my second conversion when I felt inclined to re-examine all my old perspectives. Since then I have assumed it might have been lightening, or brightening. After all, lightning doesn’t come from the east. But the dawning of a brighter day does. Maybe he is saying his second coming will proceed gradually until all flesh shall see it together. ???
Tom Haws wrote:I always thought it was lightning until my second conversion when I felt inclined to re-examine all my old perspectives. Since then I have assumed it might have been lightening, or brightening. After all, lightning doesn’t come from the east. But the dawning of a brighter day does. Maybe he is saying his second coming will proceed gradually until all flesh shall see it together. ???
We all know that God’s view of time in much different than ours. “A gradual dawning of a new day” could take hundreds of years!
“For as the light of the morning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west, and covereth the whole earth, so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.”The closer I study Christ’s arrival 2000 years ago (vs. what was expected) the more I wonder if it is possible that we have already missed it this time around. I AM SERIOUS! Mapleleaf… thank you for your insights. I would love to hear from more of you!
flowerdrops wrote:
Mapleleaf… thank you for your insights. I would love to hear from more of you!Absolutely! I certainly enjoy the speculation. I still feel that the scriptures are too specific on this point to budge much from conventional understanding. Consider these verses in Acts 1, after the resurrected Jesus dwelt among his disciples:
“And when he [Jesus] had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven,
shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.” (Acts 1:9-11) I’m grateful that God has set it out to be like this… Otherwise it would be our responsibility to scour the earth in search of the second coming of Christ. I would be concerned about looking for him, and somehow following the wrong one! There are many who make such claims to be Christ. It looks to me as though God has set up a way that we can know the real Jesus has returned by the hard-to-replicate manner in which he will return! (From the sky, with great power and noise, and visible to all).
Truly a fascinating question! I don’t discard the possibility that he may “be here” already, and that the recognition of his presence may rise over the earth much the way the sun does. The whole thing could be a complete surprise to our current paradigm. We may see his presence as clearly as we see our own image in the mirror. Honestly, I really don’t know – but that doesn’t stop the imagination from working overtime! MapleLeaf, I appreciate this comment:
MapleLeaf wrote:…I would be concerned about looking for him, and somehow following the wrong one!
Obviously that is a real concern, just look at how often it has happened in history. For some reason this brings to mind the saying: “If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him” (which has no physical or violent intent at all, it’s talking about a spiritual journey). To me it has a very similar meaning to “trust not in the arm of flesh” or “Blessed art thou, …for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.”
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