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In the SW and have never seen this either. Sounds like some lawyers trying to make a quick buck. Just like SamBee said, I don’t like ambulance chasers either. They remind me of leeches. Perhaps I am just naive, but I just don’t understand why churches including our faith struggles in this department.
We have a paid cable subscription through a very major provider that allows us to view recorded shows anywhere via the internet. My wife was watching a show on her laptop last week and called me over when she saw this being advertised during a commercial break. We live in the southeastern US. desertghost93 wrote:
In the SW and have never seen this either. Sounds like some lawyers trying to make a quick buck. Just like SamBee said, I don’t like ambulance chasers either. They remind me of leeches.Perhaps I am just naive, but I just don’t understand why churches including our faith struggles in this department.
I should have added a clarification – I can never condone abuse, or indeed, false allegations… My main gripe here is with the parasitic element, like you.
Do organizations have a responsibility towards children? You betcha. I would never say otherwise. And past mistakes should not be repeated. But some organizations such as the Scouts, which have brought much joy and happy memories to many children, are being destroyed by this culture. As the old saying goes, the baby is being thrown out with the bath water. And in many cases, the people involved will never get full justice because the perps are dead.
I got severely assaulted (non-sexually by the way) by a kindergarten teacher decades ago, and I think I am still affected by it. But the woman who did it, is almost certainly dead or very old. I was so small I can’t remember her name or even appearance and I think I repressed the incident. But I can remember the aftermath. Trying to find witnesses would be a huge task. If they remembered. If I sued her, I would end up with some money but still have the memories of recovering from it and it wouldn’t make me happier. My best hope is that it doesn’t happen to children that age in the present or future.
desertghost93 wrote:
DarkJedi wrote:
Can’t say that I have. I live in the northeast US where the church population is less than 1% of the total population. I Googled it though, and it appears to be about suing the church for covering up sexual abuse. It was only a matter of time before this happened, and I’m pretty sure the church is ready. I like to think, and hope, that hidden abuse in the church is not on the same scale as the Catholic Church or Boy Scouts. Statistically it’s pretty likely to be on a smaller scale.
I think while the church has it’s fair share of faults, I do think they would NEVER allow this sort of thing to be swept under the rug on the same scale as the Catholic church. I sure hope this is the case. That would be incredibly embarrassing. I do recall the church has changed their policy when reporting abuse as well. I could be wrong, but I think there is a hotline that was set up for leaders to report this. Not to mention, aren’t religious leaders mandatory reporters?
I think who is a mandated reporter varies by state. I don’t believe pastors, etc., are in my state. I used to have a friend who was a Catholic priest (he passed away a few years ago) and I do recall him saying something about it being a confidentiality thing similar to a lawyer. The example he used was that if a parishioner confessed murder to him during confession he could not in turn report that to the police or anyone else. He could encourage the individual to turn himself in (and would have) but he was required to keep that confidentiality. He also said he felt fortunate to have never been placed in that kind of situation.
In my state I know it’s all medical workers, anyone who works in a school, and people like social workers who are mandated. At the same time, my state does have a 24-hour hotline and anyone can call and remain anonymous if they wish. In the case of the priest, if he was the only one the perpetrator ever told he wouldn’t really be anonymous – but that’s the real moral dilemma. Do you risk the confidentiality and whatever ramifications with that or do you save the kid? I think it can be a tough spot.
All of that said, I also am aware there is a church hotline for leaders to call and get information on what they’re supposed to do if they become aware of abuse. Again, because state laws are different I think the church just can’t make a blanket policy. I have also wondered what kind of situation I might be in were I a bishop because I am a mandated reporter because of my job. Am I going to lose my job/license because a church lawyer tells me not to report a case of abuse? Absolutely not, my job is my livelihood. Release me as bishop, don’t destroy my career.
DarkJedi wrote:
Am I going to lose my job/license because a church lawyer tells me not to report a case of abuse? Absolutely not, my job is my livelihood. Release me as bishop, don’t destroy my career.
As a bit of a tangent, one of the reasons that has been put forth in opposition to the proposed new Utah rule banning conversion therapy is the fear that liscenced therapists serving as bishops may lose their liscence for advice/counseling they give in their role as bishops. This reason was not in the initial document detailing the opposition that Family Services had to the proposed new rule but was mentioned by a church spokesman in a later Deseret News article discussing the church opposition.DarkJedi wrote:
I used to have a friend who was a Catholic priest (he passed away a few years ago) and I do recall him saying something about it being a confidentiality thing similar to a lawyer. The example he used was that if a parishioner confessed murder to him during confession he could not in turn report that to the police or anyone else. He could encourage the individual to turn himself in (and would have) but he was required to keep that confidentiality. He also said he felt fortunate to have never been placed in that kind of situation.
I believe this is what is known as the Seal of the Confessional. I am not totally unsympathetic to it. However, if you remove the Seal of the Confessional, then you also remove the willingness of some people to confess to things including this. It is much the same with a shrink or other doctor.
In the RC context I see several things:
* The RC church is a lot bigger. This means a bigger pool of both abusers and abused, even if it is at as low a rate as the general population. In this sense, it shares issues with the Scouts, schools etc which have a big number of members. My best friend is RC and tells me he has nothing but respect for all the priests he grew up with, since they all treated him well. But as I tell him, it only takes one in every hundred or less to do such a thing and you have a problem.
* Its clergy are supposed to be celibate. This, I think leads to issues. Many priests take the vow of celibacy in adolescence before they can know much about the world. Not being able to marry, let alone have sexual contact outside marriage, means many priests end up with a twisted sexuality in my view.
* They take forgiveness, contrition and absolution very seriously and this has been their downfall. Many abusers fake it, which means they get put back into circulation.
* It’s a large org. Such bodies protect themselves and regrettably not always in the right way.
There is, I’m told, at least one person in my stake (not the leadership) who has admitted to pedophilic impulses. It is actually a good thing that he has and honest of him. A pedophile and abuser are not necessarily the same thing – a person can be one without being the other, since some child abusers are not specifically attracted to them and some pedophiles do not act on their urges and are so not actually criminals. However, I believe this person has done the right thing. I don’t know who it is, but it means that he can at least be kept away from opportunities, and temptation, at least within a church context. I also hope that the man has sought medical intervention on this matter.
Should that person be outed? You tell me. As far as I know he has not acted on his impulses. But we need safeguards.
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