Having a Different Conversation/I Don’t Know What To Say

[AmyJ]

Our Primary President is amazing – she is caring, thoughtful, and inclusive. However, whenever I have run into her recently, the conversation always devolves into how exciting it is that my now 10 year old can go to the temple next year (end of year birthday, yearly planning, and the Primary President’s daughter just moved up and is going to the temple soon).

Right now, I mostly make a non-committal “that’s a thing coming up” and change the subject.

What is the most-face saving comment(s) I can make around this topic?

I am not excited. I don’t want to go. I don’t want to deal with my daughter going (or chastising me for not going, or my husband getting mad at me because he has to go and get a recommend to support our daughter because I won’t fulfill my cultural duty and do so).

[Anonymous]

I’ve been there. My heart breaks for you and the situation you’re in. Random thoughts:

Primary President:

Her behavior sounds typical. One of the benefits to being in a group with assumed shared beliefs is that the assumed shared beliefs serve as conversational ice breakers. One of the downsides of being in a group with assumed shared beliefs is that the assumed shared beliefs themselves can supplant actual relationships.

I may not know someone at church very well, but if I know they have a cultural milestone approaching I can maintain a short interaction with them that is all about the approaching cultural milestone.

Part of being human is projecting ourselves onto others. When your Primary President talks about how exciting it is that your 10 year old will be going to the temple for the first time she’s really saying, “If I had a 10 year old that was going to the temple for the first time I’d be really excited.” Those assumed shared beliefs also factor into our projection. We don’t even think twice about projecting our wants and desires onto other people at church because the assumption is that the other person has the same wants and desires as we do, it’s right there in the belief system. It may not even cross people’s minds that someone else at church may not want to go to the temple, may not want to get married, may not want to have children, etc.

We’re all unique, so I can only tell you how I’d handle the conversation.

“Yeah. :thumbup: Mmm hmm. Yeah. Yup.”

The conversation ends, everyone forgets they even had the conversation, then a month or two later you listen to someone else talk about how excited they are about temple stuff. 🙂

One thing you may want to think about now… if you and your husband’s TR is expired by the time your daughter reaches the age to go to the temple your local leadership may do any number of things:

1) Press you to renew your TR specifically so you can be with your daughter for her first time through the temple. It may be seen as an opportunity to “fix” your family.

2) Ask you whether it’s okay for your daughter to do baptisms at the temple without you or your husband.

I think there’s more expectation for parents to go the first time, it is a milestone after all, but after a kid has been once no one really expects the parents to come along.

[Anonymous]

nibbler wrote:

One thing you may want to think about now… if you and your husband’s TR is expired by the time your daughter reaches the age to go to the temple your local leadership may do any number of things:

1) Press you to renew your TR specifically so you can be with your daughter for her first time through the temple. It may be seen as an opportunity to “fix” your family.

2) Ask you whether it’s okay for your daughter to do baptisms at the temple without you or your husband.

I think there’s more expectation for parents to go the first time, it is a milestone after all, but after a kid has been once no one really expects the parents to come along.

I have had similar thoughts about those leadership options.

1A) They try to “fix” me into getting a temple recommend. I can do a non-committal “I’m not at that point yet, but hopefully someday” which will just baffle the heck out of them because I show up, I do callings, I served a mission – what the heck am I waiting on? And yes,worse case scenario they start speculating on the sins I committed… Any better ideas?

1B) They try to “fix” my non-temple recommend holding anti-authoritarian introverted husband. He barely makes it through sacrament meeting on the Sundays he comes due to perfume and other health issues. It’s already socially awkwardly enough that my middle-aged husband has less stamina then some of the brethren 30 years older than he is. Most of the branch assumes that my husband is less active (which is ironic because he has a testimony, I don’t). The missionaries stopped by to meet him last month in true hunting for Less Active form.

2A) I am fine with them taking her in theory. I don’t know how it will play out because of who my daughter is. It all comes down to their perceived need for my daughter to be at the temple vs putting up with her quirks and making allowances for her.

[Anonymous]

1) It sounds like you have no need to open up to this individual. I would remain non-committal but positive. Yeah, “That’s great – I thought I had more time to prepare though. “

2) I would encourage you to delay this issue/conflict. You could say “We are going to hold off until she is 12/13/14 to be able to more fully appreciate the holiness of the temple ordinances.” or “DD is not showing much interest in going right now. When she is ready, she will let us know.” or “I want to take her alone (or with extended family) for her first temple trip. We are having some trouble arranging that but I will let you know.”

3) I personally would renew my TR just for the purpose of avoiding uncomfortable questions about why I do not have one. There are some great threads on various ways to interpret the belief questions and still say “yes” if you are interested. It doesn’t mean you ever have to attend the temple. (I do not have a TR due to tithing. I have had several conversations with several bishops about my tithing situation. If you do let your TR lapse I think you should prepare yourself to explain yourself to the bishop at some point.)

4) My own 14 year old daughter has declined to go to temple trips. She has really just not been interested in the temple. We told people that we wanted her to go alone with family first. When the opportunity presented itself, DW arranged for DD to go with a pair of cousins. We told DD that we wanted to at least have her experience it so that she will know what to expect if she ever wants to go with the youth. So far she hasn’t wanted to go on the temple youth trips.

The next issue will be seminary. We are leaving it up to her but if she doesn’t want to go – and we are not going to push it – then we plan to use some similar tactics to forestall and redirect interested individuals.

[Anonymous]

I’m pretty much with Roy. I think sometimes we create conflict when we don’t really need to. It’s like the “authenticism” argument where some people don’t believe they’re being authentic if they don’t disclose every detail. Truth is if those people were really being authentic and believed someone to be ugly and stupid they’d tell the person so. You can be authentic but also be discreet – it doesn’t necessarily mean speaking your mind.

I have done things similar to what Roy suggests. When someone is gushing on about how wonderful the temple or BOM or fill-in-the-blank is and I don’t necessarily think or feel the same way it doesn’t mean I have to say so or even say “I don’t the same thing from it.” A simple “That’s great” or “I’m glad you like it” or “Thanks for sharing” (all authentic statements) suffice. Sometimes it’s sufficient to not respond at all.

I’d also renew my TR, and I know that because I do it. My current TR expires this summer and has never been to the temple. The last one was there twice (when my son was endowed and another married).

I know lots of kids who just don’t go on temple trips for whatever reason. In our area they have been discouraging such group trips to some extent and encouraging going as families. Having something else going on the day of the temple trip is legit – and if you don’t have something going on there’s always enough notice to plan something. I get it if you don’t want to make excuses, then don’t do that, but it’s an easy out. In Roy’s Seminary example, there’s lots of that too – out here in Babylon most kids refuse early morning seminary. They can bluster and even cajole (although in truth little of that happens here) but they can’t make anyone do anything. Tune em out.

[Anonymous]

First reaction is that I’ve never heard of this idea that the parents go the temple the first time with their kids. Really, I haven’t heard of it. I’ve raised 3 kids in the church, and this was never an expectation. I’ve literally never been to the temple with my kids when they’ve done youth temple trips, and they all did them.

Second reaction is mostly what the others are saying. I wouldn’t worry about what to say in these situations. She’s just making small talk, and assuming your like-mindedness. I just gloss over things people say that are like this. I’m not looking for confidantes, and if I were, this isn’t the person I’d start with.

[Anonymous]

hawkgrrrl wrote:

First reaction is that I’ve never heard of this idea that the parents go the temple the first time with their kids. Really, I haven’t heard of it. I’ve raised 3 kids in the church, and this was never an expectation. I’ve literally never been to the temple with my kids when they’ve done youth temple trips, and they all did them.

This is kind of a thing in our area. Maybe it is more local/regional. But we are certainly encouraged to go with our kids to the temple first time and other times (and of course do family names). This is a relatively recent development though. And it’s actually tied to the mild discouragement of group temple trips for youth – they’re more for kids whose parents can’t or won’t go (poor, pitiful things that they are).

[Anonymous]

Oh. My. I didn’t even think of this as an issue. My daughter is in the same age bracket, she turned 10 in late December. I am super anxious about her going into YW (I have some baggage that I am trying not to project onto her, but also she seems really young).

But as for the issue at hand… I have finally come to some peace specifically by leaving the temple. I have zero desire to think about it, participate in interviews/talk about it with local leadership, or pretend I am okay with going. My daughter doesn’t know how I feel about it, and she really wants to go. Though she can’t seem to sit still or be quiet for longer than 10 minutes, so maybe she won’t like it as much as she thinks. I honestly don’t know if parents going with their kids is a thing around here, but if it is she will be really disappointed and ask a lot of questions if I chose not to take her. I am so not ready to deal with this

[Anonymous]

Maybe this is needed in another Subject. I don’t mean to hijack the discussion but,

why don’t we talk to our children openly regarding the temple? I don’t think I would talk to them at 10 yrs old about my own feelings or

beliefs but I would talk to them about what they expect to get out of the experience. This way you could get the idea about if

their expectations are realistic or not. My children never had the opportunity to go to the temple before we became inactive. I don’t

know if it would of made a difference or not. (Probably not.) What is important I believe is: always talk to your children when

you have the opportunity. This seems like a great opportunity. Does anyone believe that doing proxy baptisms & confirmations are

harmful?

[Anonymous]

I LOVE the multi-layered symbolism of vicarious work, even if I don’t believe in any literal power or need for it.

Any issues I have with the temple are not related to vicarious ordinances – except the judgmentalism that can accompany them with some people. (and those people would find others reasons to be judgmental, so even that really isn’t about the ordinances)

In your situation, I might tell my daughter I want her to experience the temple on her own, so she can feel whatever she feels for herself, without any pressure from me being there. It would be true, but it also would not prejudice her in any way.

[Author]

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