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nibbler wrote:
I’m singling out this part but thanks for the entire 2ยข. Yes, I’m finding that love is exactly this. So why do we have trouble creating these types of bonds within the church community? I believe they exist but more often than not they exist outside of the official programs of HT and VT. In the quiet heart is hidden sorrow that the eye can’t see. Thanks for not adverting your gaze from your friend.
No thanks required. It has always been my pleasure to help and love friends when they will allow. I just have a hard time believing anyone should have to cry alone. And every now and then, someone has reciprocated and cried with me as well. That was the payback. It was worth the effort…all of it.
nibbler wrote:I’ve found nearly all of my relationships with people at church to be superficial. … It takes effort from me to create those types of relationships but I was never able to use HT as a tool to help me do that. I guess for me the relationships felt forced, never genuine. Maybe I’m the odd one out that way.
I think it is that “glamorous” false paradigm that creeps into people, and they are afraid to be vulnerable. Vulnerability seems to be the key to forging deep emotional connections. But the church teaches over and over self reliance, and the GAs, because they never make mistakes (which is a crafty facade they hide behind in my opinion, and is completely false) reinforce the idea of always being the giver, never the receiver.
I have often marveled that LDS people are taught so much that “to give is better than to receive” that we take offence at ourselves when we have needs. And, we hide our wounds.
If I have ever learned anything from this dear friend of mine, it is what I said before,….real love costs and is not glamorous. When your friend bleeds and you are there to help, it is very likely you will get some of that blood on you as well. In the HT program, more than the VT one which seems to do better IMHO, people are afraid to show their wounds: they hide that they sometimes bleed; and, when they do, there often is inexperience and concern from those who are trying to help not understanding that the days of glamour are over.
Once heard a story which I think might have been true. There was a situation where a power outage or something happened, and lots of people were showing up in a big gym basketball court for shelter. There were lots of ethnic diversity and fights and friction were common. ONe man came in who probably was homeless,…and tried to get comfortable. He took his shoes off and the stench and stink from his feet filled the air, nauseating many around him and causing all kinds of problems. No one did anything but get more and more angry. EVentually, the leader of the facility took a bowl of water with some dish soap in it, walked toward the man with everyone looking at him with daggers in their eyes wondering what he was going to do, and he took the mans stockings off, placed them and his shoes in a sealed bag, and cleaned his stinky feet with the warm water and soap. He placed some new clean stockings on his feet.
I think there might be something of truth in that story–meaning I think it happened. But the question I ask is this? how glamorous was that event?
I know of a lady who works in a burn unit where they literally scrub the flesh off of burned peoples bodies in what becomes a blood filled tub of water where those people, even filled with morphine, scream in utter utter agony. This lady works there by choice: she has been described as having a “grand spirit” in her. She has found the capacity inside to work in this most difficult environment because she desires to give back, to love, to help where others can’t.
THAT is what I am talking about!
nibbler wrote:I have friends in the church that I consider a true brother, a true father, etc. but none of those relationships came as the result of the HT program.
My closed friendships have always come because of seeing people’s wounds: emotional, physical, and spiritual wounds. In church, we just don’t show wounds. People don’t go in there and say: “I am struggling with a drug addiction problem, and I need help.” Or “my son is gay and I know he is thinking about suicide, and you people are hurting him!” Or, “my marriage is a mess”. We don’t share our wounds because they hurt us, and they have the potential of hurting others. Well,..unless you get into that place of being “real”…the real deep places inside where the tender wounds are…it is hard to forge deep relationships. If you ever do get down in there with someone in those deep places, you will know because it will begin to cost you something. It is at that point you have to be very wise as well.
nibbler wrote:I get the intent of the program though… except they still don’t because the HT program is kind of busted.
I think the HT program is basically a failure as well.
I think when we use words like: Quote:I think the HT program is basically a failure as well.
It is a huge exaggeration. I was raised Methodist. You could go to church every Sunday & never know the person sitting next to you.Much less having a Home Teacher or Visiting Teacher. I think the HT & VT programs are key to everything good the Church is trying to do.
If there is a failure, it is because of the individual members. Starting with me.
I came back to church because of my HT. He made me feel comfortable enough to open up & explain why I wasn’t coming to church.
When I did go back, he was the one who came up to greeted me. He is the one who sends an email or calls to see how I’m doing.
As a result, I want to be more like him. I see Sisters in our ward trying to do the same thing.
Not all are willing to do it. It requires effort. It requires extending yourself & risk being vulnerable.
Minyan Man wrote:I think when we use words like:
Quote:I think the HT program is basically a failure as well.
It is a huge exaggeration. I was raised Methodist. You could go to church every Sunday & never know the person sitting next to you.Much less having a Home Teacher or Visiting Teacher. I think the HT & VT programs are key to everything good the Church is trying to do.
If there is a failure, it is because of the individual members. Starting with me.
I came back to church because of my HT. He made me feel comfortable enough to open up & explain why I wasn’t coming to church.
When I did go back, he was the one who came up to greeted me. He is the one who sends an email or calls to see how I’m doing.
As a result, I want to be more like him. I see Sisters in our ward trying to do the same thing.
Not all are willing to do it. It requires effort. It requires extending yourself & risk being vulnerable.
I agree that home/visiting teaching works for some – on both sides (teachers and teachees). I’m with Nibbler – I think it’s a general failure. I don’t disagree that the premise is nobel, but like NIbbler it has always seemed forced to me. Recently one of the most active home teachers/leaders in our ward said something that shocked me (coming from him): “I think it’s sad we have to be assigned to be friends and love one another.” I agree, it is sad, and it doesn’t work for me.
Unlike you MM my home teacher had nothing to do with my return. A few years into my FC/inactivity I requested a different home teacher. The guy I had did come most months, but clearly thought I was an apostate and did it to turn in a report he had done his home teaching. While I don’t dislike him, we’re not friends even after he home taught me for years and even now that I am active. It doesn’t help matters that we have little in common and the kids dreaded his visits. I did get a new HT, and he’s still my home teacher. We are friends but we were friends before. He never comes and I’m just fine with that because I ask little of the church and that’s one of the things I don’t ask for. I also don’t go home teaching. I am assigned two families that I have absolutely nothing in common with – one is an 80-something year old guy who I can’t figure out why he’s still alive and the other is an antagonistic long term inactive who doesn’t want contact anyway. Cynical as it may sound, for me the program doesn’t work – but I’m not all that into programs anyway.
I occasionally go to the Methodist church down the street. I went to their Christmas Cantata, which was really nice. I know some of the people there because they live in the neighborhood. They have back pillows in the pews.
:thumbup: I’m fine with going there, saying hi to those I know and not knowing others, dropping $5 in the plate at the cantata, and going on my merry way without any commitment and without any of them giving me a second thought.I’m not saying everyone is like me or should be. I could have been a hermit like Obi Wan or Yoda and been quite happy, but I recognize others need more social interaction than that. For those who do need more, I can see how it might work.
I absolutely LOVE the concept and principle of Home Teaching. There are issues with the program, as it has become systematized.
Full disclosure: I have been a mediocre – lousy HT most of my life.
Like Ray, I’m not that great of a home teacher. Minyan Man, that’s great that home teachers helped your reactivation. I’m semi-active right now. Mainly due to in the past not having a ride. Lately it doesn’t look like that’ll be issue. The only issue now is having to deal with the traditional way the Gospel is taught versus the way I understand it now after my faith transition. Sigh. Oh well. The times I am the best HT is either when the family needs some help or they have kids and are ok with me gearing the lesson to them. Just simple “be goo” lessons in non traditional ways that excites the kids Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Old-Timer wrote:I absolutely LOVE the concept and principle of Home Teaching.
There are issues with the program, as it has become systematized.
Full disclosure: I have been a mediocre – lousy HT most of my life.
I agree with Ray, but I think the program generally is a failure: not because it isn’t a great concept or principle drives–but because the level of connection and commitment is often transitory.
When someone is assigned as a HT, do they make a commitment right then and there to be a life-long friend, no matter what happens? I think the way things are shuffled around make it transitory, and actually block the level of love involved.
And,…someone above said (and I agree) that is seems forced. Why do we have to be assigned to love our neighbors? So, it seems to me the purpose is more than just loving our neighbors, which we should be doing anyway; we should be taking stock of the family in the place of the bishop as much as we can, and reporting back. Shepherds is a good word I think….but it rarely happens, at least in my experience.
For me, ideally, I have to be a friend first then a HT. I don’t want to be the person that delivers a canned message & move on to the next family. We seem to be an organization that worships the leadership & are concerned with leadership having positions. (That might be harsh.)
IMO the success or failure of the church is due to the efforts of the rank & file membership. Especially as it relates to HT’s & VT’s & connecting
with their families. When they have a close relationship, you should be able to discuss any topic. You develop a close relationship that extends
to the ward as a whole. I admit this is an ideal view & doesn’t always work. When it doesn’t work, families should be reassigned.
Again IMO, the first consideration for a new Bishop or SP or RSP should be what kind of HT or VT were they?
Minyan Man wrote:Again IMO, the first consideration for a new Bishop or SP or RSP should be what kind of HT or VT were they?
Were this truly a consideration it would be another good reason not to call me as bishop!
I finished the book last week. I recommend it to anyone. It sure made some things a LOT more clear. I heard Greg Prince say in lecture that he wasn’t concerned about the problems in leadership and so forth because he had “set the bar so low” to start with. Many in the group were shocked, and some chuckled, but Prince was serious!
After reading this book, I am astonished the church has been able to move forward at all. There were some real struggles that seemed to never go away.
Again, I recommend it to anyone.
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