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I’ve been able to be more open with my husband about the things I’m learning about church history and about my own changing views. He’s not really what I would call a TBM and I’m not sure where he stands as far as belief and testimony. Whenever I ask, he’s quite vague. He says he likes taking the sacrament because of what it represents and that it gives us pause to truly consider how we’re living our lives and what we can do to be more Christlike. But he doesn’t attend the rest of the block and he’s usually fidgety and negative during the talks in sacrament meeting and I know he doesn’t appreciate the black and white views of some church teachings. So last night, we’re eating dinner and he looks at me and says “Why do you wear garments?” I was a little taken aback because we hadn’t been on the subject at all. I asked what he means and he explained that if I don’t believe the church is what it claims to be and if I don’t want to attend the temple (I had told him I wanted to take a break, not that we went often in the first place), then why do I still wear garments? He feels like that makes me a hypocrite and he hates nothing more than a hypocrite. I told him that it’s partly because they’re familiar, partly because I don’t even own regular underwear, and partly because I’m still working through things and I don’t want to draw negative attention to myself. We all know that you can tell who is wearing garments and who isn’t. I don’t want someone making assumptions about me because I’m not wearing them. So then he tells me that he wishes I would just make a decision. I think he’s still in the black and white mindset of all or nothing when it comes to church. So he’s asking me to choose. I told him that if it were just me, no husband no kids, I would probably be at least taking a break from church to figure some things out. But because I know that would cause confusion for our children and because I don’t want to have that division between the two of us, I stay. I’ve told him before that I won’t stop attending on my own. Leaving the church would have to be a family affair.
I couldn’t bear for my children to be taught each week that because of me we won’t be together in the next life or that I am “lost” or “deceived by Satan” or that I am somehow less worthy. I know that I could teach them differently at home, but I also know the power of those teachings constantly reinforced in primary and YM and YW. I remember when, as a young teenager, I discovered that my dad watched rated R movies. I was devastated and convinced that he wasn’t worthy of his priesthood.
Truth be told though, I’m having a really hard time staying in. The more I learn about church history and past and current church policies, the harder I find it to be associated with it. I know this will be long, but here’s a rundown of some of my issues and where I’m at with them. Maybe some of you will have some perspectives or advice to share.
1) I no longer believe that the BOM is a historical document or that it was translated in any way. I believe it is the work of Joseph Smith with inspiration and even direct quotations borrowed from other sources. I believe it contains some positive messages and can be inspiring to people. But I don’t like the way the church teaches it to be a true history or the way they portray the “translation process”. I struggle with having my children taught these things at church. But if I were to tell them how I feel and why, I worry that they would be ostracized by peers and teachers or corrected and told that I’m wrong, deceived, etc.
2) I don’t feel comfortable paying tithing to the church anymore. I am deeply bothered by the lack of financial transparency and accountability by the church in regards to how tithing funds are utilized and distributed. I am sickened by the way they teach those who have little to nothing that they should always pay tithing first, even if it means they may go hungry or not pay other bills such as rent or utilities. I used to buy into this and chose to pay tithing at times when our family needed it more. I understand the need for a church to have revenue for buildings, temples, materials, etc. But I don’t feel like I can trust the higher ups to use the money the way it should be used. I’m troubled by the vastness of LDS,Inc. and the salaries that GA’s are given, etc. If they’re truly doing the Lord’s work full time, how can they possibly have time to serve as board directors or CEO’s? Some have positions with several of the church’s subsidiaries. The church’s charitable giving is such a small portion of what it brings in. They could do so much more if they chose too. This is one area that really rubs me the wrong way. I just feel like the corporate church trumps Christ’s church in a lot of ways lately.
3) I believe that Joseph Smith could have been inspired in some of his teachings, but there are many things he did which I find disturbing and wrong. Many of you are aware of these, probably better than I am, so I won’t go into detail. I know he was “just a man”, but when a man claims to be speaking the word of God, he raises himself to a higher level of scrutiny as far as his character goes.
4) Polygamy, polyandry, and all that goes with it.
5) The way the church teaches its history to its members. Teaching gospel doctrine this year, I’m finding that some of the stories they want me to tell are embellished, white-washed, or in some cases completely false. I also have trouble with them using only part of the true story to reinforce whatever principle they’re trying to teach without actually looking at the background. This week’s lesson on apostasy and the Thomas B. Marsh story is one example.
6) The lack of focus on Christ and the basic teachings of His gospel. I feel the church gets too focused on all of it’s rules and on the prophets and that Christ is not mentioned nearly enough. I’d like to focus more of my own study on the New Testament and the teachings of Christ, but I can do that by going to many other Christian churches or by not attending one at all.
I guess I fear that if I keep attending, my own mental issues as far as trying to make everything work and deal with the inconsistencies and sometimes untruths taught at church will just get worse. I worry that my children, no matter how hard I try and how much I work to counter-act things they hear at church, will be taught the church’s version of things and if they mention to anyone that their mom or their parents think differently, they will be told that we are wrong and are going against the Lord. I worry that my children will then choose what the church is teaching over what I am teaching them due to social pressure, or the strong use of fear and guilt and shame in many church lessons. I worry that my children will learn to judge me and will want to serve missions and be married in the temple and I won’t be able to be a part of that.
If we were to leave, I worry that my kids will be ostracized by their friends and peers because we live in a heavily LDS community. I know there would be huge fall-out with my in-laws who are extremely orthodox to the point of being overboard when it comes to church teachings. My mother would be heart-broken as I am one of only 2 of her 5 children who still attend church and she is definitely a TBM. I’m not worried about them growing up to be good, moral people because I know that as parents we can teach them that. We can also teach them about Christ and his gospel and teach them to serve others.
So there you have it. Those are my issues, my worries, my angst. It’s been about 8 months since I first started this journey and it is taking it’s toll on me. My husband wants a decision. He sees my wearing garments, going through the motions, teaching gospel doctrine as being hypocritical because he knows about my doubts and feelings. I almost get the sense from him that if I were to say I was done or that I wanted a break, he would support me and take a break too. I just don’t want him to do that unless it’s what he truly believes. I can see how further down the road, he might be unhappy with that decision and place blame on me for leading him astray, as it were.
Anyway, if you’ve made it this far in this lengthy post, I thank you. I never thought I would be sharing my deepest feelings, doubts, and fears with people I’ve never met but this site has been my saving grace these past months. Any and all insights, advice, or just words of love and support would be greatly appreciated.
May B, I feel for you. Going through a faith crisis at times is tough. I will pray for you that you and your husband can work things out. I can understand with your husband not wanting you to be a hypocrite with considering how you’re feeling about the church. I do agree that the church could concentrate a little bit more about Jesus Christ, not so much about all our rules and everything. Pray about your situation so you and your husband can find peace. MayB, Well, first, my heart aches for you. On this site, we have a lot of varied experiences and outlooks, but if their is one commonality that most of us share it is what I call “The Great Disappointment”; learning that the Church is not what we once thought and that our lives are not as purposeful as we previously believed.
I still haven’t worked out everything from my mid-90’s faith crisis, but I am a lot better today than when I was then. Some things that have helped me, that I feel apply to your situation:
– I stopped worrying about what other people thought of me. Spirituality, god-centered living, Christian attitudes, charity, love, faith… these are all far more personal than I once thought. In the Church, we often tend to think of these things as tied to our observance of the various commitments of mormonism. In reality, those are just outword rituals. If wearing garments helps you feel a connection with the gospel, fine, if not, that’s fine too. It’s up to you whether to wear them. If you primary motivation is to conform so as not to draw attention to yourself, then I think it is a good thing to ask yourself the ‘why’ question. I don’t think the WoW is a ‘commandment’ from God. I still don’t drink. That’s my personal choice and something about who I am… it has nothing to do with the Church anymore.
– Black & white thinking is a poor foundation for the aforementioned charity, love and faith. It hinders. It restricts. It judges. That’s true for people still fully in the Church and for people in faith transition, alike. If you can find good things in the Church that help you reach your personal spirituality and you can learn to ignore the other things, then great. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing. I personally believe there is no God. I still find a sort-of burning in my bosom regarding the teachings of the New Testament. The LDS Church offers me my most consistent brushes with the ‘spiritual’ realm.
– It’s not ‘hypocrisy’ if you are true to yourself. I have taught gospel doctrine and primary since my faith crisis. I simply avoid things that I’m not comfortable with. I can still teach the important elements that come from the lessons. When I teach from the NT, I talk in terms of how the early disciples saw Jesus and his mission, and how that impacted their lives. When I teach church history, I focus on what the people were trying to accomplish and how they went about it. When I’ve taught BoM lessons, I focus on what we learn from the story that we can use in our own lives. If I can’t find a way to teach a lesson, I get a sub. If you are trying to figure out how you approach God within the framework of mormonism, then there is no hypocrasy in any of your actions, so long as you don’t proclaim or to be a full-believer.
– I learned, over time, to support my wife and children in the Church. It is their religion. If they want to go on missions, great. Temple marriage? Congratulations. I’m not going to impose my beliefs on them, but I will celebrate their belief. My kids all know my situation. I think that each and every one of my kids is better off because of it. They are aware that the culture of the Church is not the same as the doctrine of the Church. They don’t suffer from B&W thinking. Although they are all far more faithful than me, I would categorize all of them as progressive. What’s not to like?
Hi MayB, I also hope you and your husband can find peace.
I’m curious about why he wants you to hurry up and make a decision. From your initial description of him it sounds like he would be more sympathetic to your questions. Could it be that he wants to take a break from church and wants you to make the decision for him?
Good luck.
MayB wrote:I don’t believe the church is what it claims to be and if I don’t want to attend the temple (I had told him I wanted to take a break, not that we went often in the first place), then why do I still wear garments? He feels like that makes me a hypocrite and he hates nothing more than a hypocrite. I told him that it’s partly because they’re familiar, partly because I don’t even own regular underwear, and partly because I’m still working through things and I don’t want to draw negative attention to myself. We all know that you can tell who is wearing garments and who isn’t. I don’t want someone making assumptions about me because I’m not wearing them. So then he tells me that he wishes I would just make a decision. I think he’s still in the black and white mindset of all or nothing when it comes to church. So he’s asking me to choose.
Hi, MayB – Like some others have said, it seems like he might be asking you to make a decision for both of you. I don’t know anything about your marriage. Does he tend to defer to you in religious matters? But, if you’re going to nit-pick along his lines, why is your wearing garments more “hypocritical” than him skipping the majority of Sunday meetings? You know how to bring it up without being contentious. I know you’re dealing with the whole ball of wax, not just garments, but being called a hypocrite by your husband is not a good way to start. Good luck to both of you as you figure out a way to talk.
MayB, I feel for you! Today has been an emotional day for me, so I hesitate to even respond. But I want to just to let you know that my heart goes out to you. You gave me great advice today, and I know you know the answers to your confusion.
I agree with what others said that just from the sound of it , it sounds like your hubby might want a break too? And I can see how that would be SO scary. I worry about the same thing. I don’t want to be the cause of anyone’s faith crisis!! or anyone leaving the church unless they decided on their own. I don’t think anyone “led” me? It was mostly my emotional healing journey and wondering the same thing you mentioned :
Quote:The lack of focus on Christ and the basic teachings of His gospel. I feel the church gets too focused on all of it’s rules and on the prophets and that Christ is not mentioned nearly enough. I’d like to focus more of my own study on the New Testament and the teachings of Christ, but I can do that by going to many other Christian churches or by not attending one at all.
I found healing through Christ from a non denominational 12 step group more than I EVER had from church. So I understand. I agree with and have almost the same exact issues that you mentioned.
I wish you peace in your journey!
Thank you for your responses. Just knowing others are thinking of me helps lift my heart. On Own Now wrote:if their is one commonality that most of us share it is what I call “The Great Disappointment”; learning that the Church is not what we once thought and that our lives are not as purposeful as we previously believed.
Such an apt description. For me, letting go of the “purposes” I’ve been taught for my life has felt liberating. I always struggled with taking the path that the church kept telling me was my “calling” in life, not pertaining to issues of morality or the commandments, but in the role I was taught I was destined to play and that should be my goal and my true joy. So, I guess this disappointment has paved the way for me to work toward being a more authentic version of myself.
On Own Now wrote:I stopped worrying about what other people thought of me. Spirituality, god-centered living, Christian attitudes, charity, love, faith… these are all far more personal than I once thought. In the Church, we often tend to think of these things as tied to our observance of the various commitments of mormonism. In reality, those are just outword rituals.
I’ve spent my whole life worrying about what other people think of me. I suppose I’m having a hard time letting that go. Also, I know that not wearing the garment, once discovered, would trigger unwelcome discussions (read lectures of concern) from certain family members and I really don’t want to deal with that. I suppose though, if I’m going to be more authentic I would have to deal with those things eventually anyway. There is no easy answer. Either go on pretending or deal with the consequences of truly living according to my own belief and conscience.
On Own Now wrote:Black & white thinking is a poor foundation for the aforementioned charity, love and faith. It hinders. It restricts. It judges. That’s true for people still fully in the Church and for people in faith transition, alike. If you can find good things in the Church that help you reach your personal spirituality and you can learn to ignore the other things, then great. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing. I personally believe there is no God. I still find a sort-of burning in my bosom regarding the teachings of the New Testament. The LDS Church offers me my most consistent brushes with the ‘spiritual’ realm.
Thank you so much for sharing this. I’d like to try to incorporate my own spiritual growth within the community of the church, but am finding it increasingly difficult.
On Own Now wrote:It’s not ‘hypocrisy’ if you are true to yourself.
I have been very careful in teaching my class that I don’t profess to belief I do not have. Sometimes it’s easy, other times not. This will be a good issue to discuss with my husband. Right now, I’m not wearing the garment for myself, but for others. I’ll have to do some serious introspection as to what choices I will make and why.
Earl Parsons wrote:I’m curious about why he wants you to hurry up and make a decision. From your initial description of him it sounds like he would be more sympathetic to your questions. Could it be that he wants to take a break from church and wants you to make the decision for him?
You know, Earl, he just might. He’s not one to take time to weigh options carefully and contemplate every possible consequence to an action. He prefers to just make a decision and stick to it. He can sometimes be a bit impatient with my more methodical way of doing things. I don’t like to take an action until I’m 100% sure it’s the one that I want. He has also looked to me to make some of the bigger decisions in our marriage. I’d rather we each discuss our positions and go from there. When he does something that he knows I want or I feel good about without expressing that he feels the same way, I worry that he’s just trying to make me happy and might later blame me if the results of that action we took aren’t what he wants them to be. Maybe he’s okay with taking a step back and taking a break from church, but if that’s the case I really wish he would just say so. It would make things so much easier.
🙂 Ann wrote:Like some others have said, it seems like he might be asking you to make a decision for both of you. I don’t know anything about your marriage. Does he tend to defer to you in religious matters? But, if you’re going to nit-pick along his lines, why is your wearing garments more “hypocritical” than him skipping the majority of Sunday meetings? You know how to bring it up without being contentious. I know you’re dealing with the whole ball of wax, not just garments, but being called a hypocrite by your husband is not a good way to start. Good luck to both of you as you figure out a way to talk
Thanks Ann. As I mentioned above, he sometimes does defer to me in several different areas of our marriage. I hadn’t thought of his skipping meetings to be along the hypocritical line. I simply understand that he doesn’t feel he benefits from being there and isn’t comfortable attending. I’m hoping we can talk without it getting contentious. Per our conversation yesterday, he just seems to be waiting to see what I’ll do without giving me any inkling of what that would mean for him and the kids or what he wants as far as activity with the church.
opentofreedom wrote:I agree with what others said that just from the sound of it , it sounds like your hubby might want a break too? And I can see how that would be SO scary. I worry about the same thing. I don’t want to be the cause of anyone’s faith crisis!! or anyone leaving the church unless they decided on their own.
Thanks OTF. It really is so scary. It might sound silly, but after 30 years of being told exactly what to believe and how to live my life, the idea of rejecting any of those things or of openly stepping back from them scares me to death. I’m scared of the reactions of others, mostly because I know I might have to state my reasons and opinions and that those reasons and opinions will not be accepted in a loving or understanding way.
Have you told him that no matter what your ultimate decision is with regard to the Church, that you always will choose him? Maybe he has felt free to be . . . less committed . . . because he has believed you will make up for it – that your faith will make up for a lack on his part. Maybe, deep down, he wants to believe in eternal marriage and the big picture of Mormonism – and having you struggle has shaken that – made him worry that you and he might end up “til death do you part”. Maybe your ability to make “the right decision” about the “big things” has freed him not to have to worry about them.
I don’t know. Really, I have no idea – but it might be very different than a quick assumption would conclude.
You might want to discuss what his goals and vision are for your family as your children grow older. Also, kindly, but gently, with a view to understanding, ask him about his own feelings, since you indicated they are not clear — for example, why he doesn’t stay for the full three hour block, etcetera. Let him also share how he feels. There may be common ground there. You may find you both have reasons for staying without fully engaging with the entire experience.
I agree with Ray, though, that if you really mean it, affirm your relationship and family comes ahead of any divisiveness that may be inspired by church teachings.
I was relieved that the other day, my wife said her relationship to me comes ahead of the church. That wasn’t always true when we were younger, but it is true now.
SilentDawning wrote:You might want to discuss what his goals and vision are for your family as your children grow older. Also, kindly, but gently, with a view to understanding, ask him about his own feelings, since you indicated they are not clear — for example, why he doesn’t stay for the full three hour block, etcetera. Let him also share how he feels.
There may be common ground there. You may find you both have reasons for staying without fully engaging with the entire experience.
I agree with Ray, though, that if you really mean it, affirm your relationship and family comes ahead of any divisiveness that may be inspired by church teachings.
I was relieved that the other day, my wife said her relationship to me comes ahead of the church. That wasn’t always true when we were younger, but it is true now.
This.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
Old-Timer wrote:Have you told him that no matter what your ultimate decision is with regard to the Church, that you always will choose him?
Maybe he has felt free to be . . . less committed . . . because he has believed you will make up for it – that your faith will make up for a lack on his part. Maybe, deep down, he wants to believe in eternal marriage and the big picture of Mormonism – and having you struggle has shaken that – made him worry that you and he might end up “til death do you part”. Maybe your ability to make “the right decision” about the “big things” has freed him not to have to worry about them.
Thanks for this perspective Ray. Yes, I have told him several times that he comes first and that our relationship is more important to me than anything else. When I first spoke to him about my doubts and issues, his first worry was for our marriage and the eternal aspect of that. I’ve reassured him that I still believe in God and I don’t believe that a loving God would keep us apart after this life. We’ve actually grown closer over these past few months.
I had never really thought of his view as even possibly being the way you describe, but it makes sense. I’ve always been the one to lead out in family prayer, scripture study, FHE, temple attendance, etc. He’s never been one to instigate anything related to church or spirituality. In this instance, I don’t want him to rely solely on me to make “the right decision” because I feel like religious belief and spirituality is such an individual journey. I want him to decide for himself and I worry that if I decide to step back or even just to be more open in my “buffet” choices that he will too without really making the effort to dig deep and discover his own beliefs.
SilentDawning wrote:You might want to discuss what his goals and vision are for your family as your children grow older. Also, kindly, but gently, with a view to understanding, ask him about his own feelings, since you indicated they are not clear — for example, why he doesn’t stay for the full three hour block, etcetera. Let him also share how he feels.
There may be common ground there. You may find you both have reasons for staying without fully engaging with the entire experience.
I agree with Ray, though, that if you really mean it, affirm your relationship and family comes ahead of any divisiveness that may be inspired by church teachings.
I was relieved that the other day, my wife said her relationship to me comes ahead of the church. That wasn’t always true when we were younger, but it is true now
This is a wonderful idea SD. Thank you. This is something that we really haven’t done. We’ve always been so focused on the present, making ends meet, dealing with the demands of a stressful job, school, and young children that we’ve never really sat down and talked about what our vision for our family is. He has mentioned, in passing, that he feels like the church has a good structure and support system for children and youth. And I do agree with the basic principles and standards that are taught at church. I also really enjoyed most of the activities and the social atmosphere that it gave me growing up. The one thing I would change is that I totally bought into the black and white issues and by doing so missed out on friendships with wonderful people and made choices that hurt others unnecessarily. I also took everything so literally that some of those teachings became damaging to me. I’ve mentioned to my husband before that even though those things bother me, I feel like we are in a better position than our parents were to be able to help our children wade through them and understand their own ability to study things out, pray, and choose for themselves.
I’ll be looking for a good time for us to talk. Maybe we’ll have to make a date of it. Get a sitter, pick up some dinner or something, drive to our favorite spot and sit and talk. These kind of discussions used to really scare me, but now I love them because they give us the opportunity to really understand each other better and to grow closer and more united. Thanks again for all of the great advice and words of support! I probably would have bungled this up big time without you guys.
🙂 MayB, I love that you are taking this time to be closer to your husband and are actually excited about serious and contemplative thoughts!! It is really beautiful!! I feel the same way now. It has been more freeing and brought us closer than I ever thought. It is funny what fear holds us back from.
Have so much fun on your date… whenever it is!
Maybe I’m off base, but I sense some cold hostility under his words to you. As you said, he hates a hypocrite. In MBTI terms, there are people who prefer closure, decisiveness, and planning ahead. There are other people who prefer to explore all options, gather information first, delay decision making until they feel comfortable. The first type of people can be hasty and make errors. The second type of people can get stuck in analysis paralysis. Honestly, both types drive each other completely nuts. My guess is he’s the former type and you’re the latter. hawkgrrrl wrote:Maybe I’m off base, but I sense some cold hostility under his words to you. As you said, he hates a hypocrite. In MBTI terms, there are people who prefer closure, decisiveness, and planning ahead. There are other people who prefer to explore all options, gather information first, delay decision making until they feel comfortable. The first type of people can be hasty and make errors. The second type of people can get stuck in analysis paralysis. Honestly, both types drive each other completely nuts. My guess is he’s the former type and you’re the latter.
Actually, I think you may be right on. He’s always been a bit impatient with my desire to analyze every possible option and outcome while I tend to get irritated when he just makes decisions, sometimes big ones, without researching things and thinking it all the way through. Right now, I might just be stuck in that “analysis paralysis” you mentioned. Sometimes I feel like I’m driving myself crazy trying to figure out what I should do because I’m thinking of every possible scenario or consequence that may come from every decision I make regarding my beliefs or my level of church activity and involvement. I’m scared to make any actual decision or take action because I worry about what might happen as a result, especially regarding my relationship with my husband, children, and other family and friends.
You see this is the problem. This is too important to make a decision when one is not ready…It affects too many aspects and too many people in our lives to make a decision when one is not ready to make it. These crisis of faith transitions should not be forced on anyone. Believe me I know. Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
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