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I have noticed the unorthodox have sometimes objected to part of the LDS experience to other Mormons, which leads to a number of standard objections from the traditional believer. I thought it might be of value to reveal some of these patterns I have noticed in lessons, and even personal conversations, or leadership meetings. We might discuss how to respond to them.
The sacrifice objection.When you object to something, the response is that whatever you are objecting to is something you should be sacrificing. For example.
Quote:Initial concern: I am reluctant to keep visiting the less active people in our Ward. I have visited over X families and none of them came back to church. I’m not convinced it’s a good use of time. I think it would produce more results if I [insert alternate activity here]. [note, I visited 150 over a 3 year period with null results].
Traditional response: The Lord requires sacrifice — a religion that does not require the sacrifice of all things can’t produce faith sufficient for salvation. You need to sacrifice whatever it is that is preventing you from reaching out to the lost sheep so that you might show the kind of sacrifice the Lord wants from us…look at the sacrifice Christ made.
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How would you respond to the sacrifice objection generally?
Quote:“You are right; sacrifice is important. Thanks for the reminder to think carefully and pray about what God wants me to sacrifice.”
Smile and walk away.
The traditional response that I usually hear to that concern: Quote:Initial concern: I am reluctant to keep visiting the less active people in our Ward. I have visited over X families and none of them came back to church. I’m not convinced it’s a good use of time. I think it would produce more results if I [insert alternate activity here]. [note, I visited 150 over a 3 year period with null results].
In my experience there’s usually some high profile leader that has had an experience where they finally came back to church after years and years of receiving visits while inactive. You usually hear about their experience every time PH/RS meetings focus on doing HT/VT.
Quote:Response: Brother SoAndSo was inactive for 25 years but faithful members of the church were diligent with their visits. Brother SoAndSo protested greatly but the members were not dissuaded, they visited him every week. Now Brother SoAndSo is the SP and it’s all because people never gave up on him.
I think every stake has a story similar to this one, and that’s not a bad thing. There is value in never giving up on someone. What makes this difficult is that a more orthodox mindset might cause someone to believe that Brother SoAndSo has to come back to church in order for the story to be considered a success. I could say more about that but I don’t want to get off on a tangent.
Unfortunately I also feel like there’s a lot of guilt in this approach. There’s the implication that Brother SoAndSo would have come back to the church if you had just done more. Sometimes there’s also the implied, you’ll be accountable to god for not being more diligent in your efforts to rescue Brother SoAndSo.
One thing I really liked about your response is that you offered an alternative activity that you are willing to do.
I remember as a missionary turning in a receipt for reimbursement. My Zone Leader chastized me about the law of consecration. I was confused and asked if it was wrong of me to seek reimbursement. He said no that it was fine – just that I should do so with the correct attitude. 🙄 In this particular issue I would probably concede the point that sacrifice is important – perhaps followed by a comment that I will need to think long and hard about how to be more effective in my sacrifices.
Roy wrote:
In this particular issue I would probably concede the point that sacrifice is important – perhaps followed by a comment that I will need to think long and hard about how to be more effective in my sacrifices.I hope I’m not disagreeing too much today Roy — don’t take it personally. The question I have about this, is that the response would likely validate the apparently condescending attitude of the person who chastised you. I like my responses to help someone think differently about their potentially destructive or unhelpful attitudes. Without offending them. As someone once said, don’t think that giving a steak to a tiger will make them a vegetarian…
Your answer diffuses the situation, so at least you can get out of it, but do you think it’s important to make others think? To me, it is…
SilentDawning wrote:I hope I’m not disagreeing too much today Roy — don’t take it personally. The question I have about this, is that the response would likely validate the apparently condescending attitude of the person who chastised you….Your answer diffuses the situation, so at least you can get out of it, but do you think it’s important to make others think? To me, it is…
No problem SD. We can disagree as friends. I suppose for me it is about picking my battles, not making waves or burning bridges, and keeping my future options as open as possible.
The orthodox message is that you should be willing to give everything for the church/kingdom and that only in your willingness to do so can you truly be saved. The person sees you as lazy or selfish for not pulling what they see as your own weight and sacrificing more fully/willingly. If I try to defend my position they will be in a position to change their mind about me or … categorize me as an obstinate, incalcitrant, faithless, and possibly dangerous apostate. I do not like my odds on that one.
In meeting with my bishop about my non-payment of tithing I have accepted his framing of tithing as my duty. I accept that my non-payment of tithing is because of struggling faith to more fully believe that the Lord will bless me for my obedience. I accept that my non-payment signifies a personal weakness/selfishness on my part. It is slightly demeaning and makes me feel somewhat like a deadbeat dad behind on child support payments.
Still, I do not believe that I would be successful in trying to change my bishop’s framework or paradigm. My goal is to be permitted to baptise my kids and so far I have been successful. If some people think that they are better then me so be it. Eating some humble pie might be the price to be paid in order to be such a big part of my kids’ coming of age life events.
I do not advocate this approach for others. I am just trying to navigate the church experience the best I can for myself and my family.
I don’t care, ultimately, about anyone else’s attitude, particularly when I believe I have no possibility of changing it. I try to influence people in whatever good way I am able, but I walk away all the time from conversations where I believe I have no chance whatsoever of making any difference for anyone.
In an ironic way, I am willing to sacrifice when the other person is not willing to do so. I’m completely fine with them not understanding that and thinking they are the one who values sacrifice.
This is an interesting one for me. Right now I’m reading a book where the main theme is that sacrifice for your fellow man above all else is a bad thing and you must live your life first. This author is very anti-socialist (seriously the whole book is that theme) but put into a gospel sense, at what point do we sacrifice to much. I think it is possible. I like Roy’s response, leave it open for sacrifice without committing to anything.
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