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Tonight my 9 year old daughter asked me straight up, “Are boys more important than girls?” I asked her what she meant, and she said that it only boys can have priesthood power and only boys can be a prophet or bishop. I honestly didn’t know what to say other than “you better believe girls are as just important.” I tried to answer blaming it on poor idea of the past, like slavery, but I don’t think I helped her feel any better. 9 years old and our religion is already making her feel second rate. I am really saddened, and don’t know what I can say to make her feel better. That’s the implication when one group in society appears to be more priviledged. There are a ton of reasons given for this, though to salve the mind of people who see it this way. I won’t go into them all as I’m sure you’re aware of them….do they hold up in your mind? Are they good arguments?
Well, my son, who is gay asked once why he can’t get pregnant and have his own baby….some questions have no answers. Brown wrote:Tonight my 9 year old daughter asked me straight up, “Are boys more important than girls?” I asked her what she meant, and she said that it only boys can have priesthood power and only boys can be a prophet or bishop. I honestly didn’t know what to say other than “you better believe girls are as just important.” I tried to answer blaming it on poor idea of the past, like slavery, but I don’t think I helped her feel any better. 9 years old and our religion is already making her feel second rate. I am really saddened, and don’t know what I can say to make her feel better.
Society and religion tend to want to put people into castes and gender roles. Although I don’t accept it has to be this way, it often is — i am not sure how much worse the LDS church is than either catholicism, hinduism or islam on this topic.sounds like your daughter is quite astute and aware — what a great kid! What a great opportunity you have to teach her that the church, for all of it’s good parts, is also made up of people — and everybody makes mistakes and does selfish things. it doesn’t excuse it, but it helps to understand it. If a child grows up thinking that everything in the church is perfect, and everythning the leaders say is true, then someday, they’ll end up like us — disaffected, disillusioned, and depressed about what we thought was true. Just lke at some point, children figure out that Santa is a myth — I think — the sooner they learn that the church is a well-meaning myth, the better they will be able to handle truth and decision making in their lives.
just my opinion…
Yeah, I think I will just have to make sure she knows what I believe. And that is that the division of the genders in our religion (and societies) is a creation of ignorant men. In the afterlife, I don’t see how anyone can believe that there will be any superior race or gender. It just sucks when your kids start to realize some of the negative sides of humanity you’d rather they not have to experience.
Quote:It just sucks when your kids start to realize some of the negative sides of humanity you’d rather they not have to experience.
Fwiw, if they are going to have to experience it at some point, I’d rather it be at a relatively young age when they will come to me to talk about it than at some point in the future when I’m not around.
One of the best things that ever happened to me was finding out how different I was at such an early age – and having parents who supported me and told me it was ok to be different. So, as hard as it might be emotionally, maybe you can count your blessings on this one and help her deal with and accept it now so it doesn’t derail her in the future.
This is why my daughter is no longer interested in the church…she’s 22. She came home from YW’s one Sunday in tears and said all the church values her for is her sexual reproductive qualities and that’s it…she said she didn’t want to be some brood mare in the next life time and that she would rather go to hell than just be some second class citizen only having rights if her husband gave them to her. She then went on to ask why all they teach the girls is to be wives and mothers? And what about the women like me who was so blessed to have their husbands run off with some younger girl…where did that leave those women if all they were were wives and mothers without any means of self support of self identity?
At that point I looked at her and told her she didn’t have to return if she didn’t want to…and she hasn’t. In the mean time she is at a big non-mormon college, earning her graduate level degree, while on the deans list and not planning on getting married for many years. And all those girls that were in her YW class are now mostly married and having babies…which is great, but I see the difference in the abilities my daughter has and will be able to offer her own children compared to the other girls. My daughter, if she gets married, won’t have to worry if her husband loses his job, or leaves her, she will be secure in her own right, which means she can choose a better more stable more secure in his own manhood man to marry. Plus she will be able to do things for her kids in the future that many of the other girls won’t. I tell her the next ten years of her life will show a huge difference in those who value themselves for more than just being a submissive wife and those who have the ability to think for themselves.
Sorry if that comes across harsh and sexist…but hey I couldn’t be more proud of her.
Arwen, I would be proud of her if she was mine. I mean that sincerely. However, be careful about condemning those who choose to be wives and mothers with terms like “brood mares”. It’s a line each person has to walk on their own – and, while I wish the young women in our church had more direct encouragement to make choices like your daugther’s if they want to do so, I also want those who don’t want to take that route valued for the choices they make just as forcefully and proudly as your daughter is by you.
Marriage age is a very difficult issue to discuss, since it’s a whole lot more complex than many people realize or are willing to admit.
I’ve told my own daughters how much I value education and how much I want them to be confident in their own “personhood” – but I also won’t argue with them if, as adults, they decide to marry at the same age as their mother was when she married me. I’ve told them it’s a different world now – and that their mother took a huge chance by doing what she decided to do. I’ve also told them how grateful I am that she made the choice she made, as it was the right choice for the two of us – even if it isn’t what I recommend as the default for everyone else.
If anyone is interested:
“Why Should We Marry Younger than the Modern, Industrial World’s Average?”( http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/2011/04/why-should-we-marry-younger-than-worlds.html Old-Timer wrote:However, be careful about condemning those who choose to be wives and mothers with terms like “brood mares”. It’s a line each person has to walk on their own – and, while I wish the young women in our church had more direct encouragement to make choices like your daugther’s if they want to do so, I also want those who don’t want to take that route valued for the choices they make just as forcefully and proudly as your daughter is by you.
My thoughts exactly. Not to mention that many stay at home mothers are in fact, college educated. My wife graduated from a good University and decided the path she wishes to take is to raise her children full time. She married me at age 20, had a kid at age 22 and still finished her B.S. degree. She feels NO pressure from the church to stay at home, she just feels that is best for our family. I support her decisions fully. I honestly know a LOT of Mormon women that have college degrees. It’s not discouraged at all.
All I want for my daughter is to be happy and to do what makes her truly happy. I think now is a better time for women than any time in history to do just that. I just wish our church could do a better job of making the girls feel like they are important.
Hey Arwen, I think we both got daughters from the same pre-existence production batch 
My oldest daughter is a freshman in college, and I had almost the identical conversation with her about 3 years ago. She is very driven and focused in her life and razor sharp smart. I often joke that they must have switched things up at the hospital and given us someone else’s baby, because she didn’t get it from us
😆 Anyway, It really sort of broke my heart at the time. The Church lost the interest of a very amazing young woman and a natural leader
😥 She wasn’t really angry or anything about it all, but she got tired of constantly talking about how to stay worthy so that someday a righteous priesthood holder would marry her in the temple. It wasn’t that she had a problem with that concept
someday. She said “Dad, that’s all they talk about. It’s kind of creepy. I’m only 15. I’m not really interested in that at the moment. I want to go to college, study the sciences and have a career.” I was just dumbfounded when she told me that. I had no reply, and you all know me. I can usually say something. I told her we wouldn’t make her go if she didn’t want to. I had the same comment from another non-member girl that we took to mutual once or twice, so it wasn’t just an insider irritation or coincidence. I think they were really focusing too much on that at the time.
Quote:I think they were really focusing too much on that at the time.
Amen.
There is a HUGE difference between “teaching” and “driving a tent stake so far into the ground that it’s impossible to see the stake being driven and being left only with an image of a sledgehammer hitting the ground”. In that light, when you keep driving a tent stake into the ground further than it needs to be driven in order to secure the tent, it actually ends up restricting the tent and “shrinking” it in a real, practical way. Stakes have to be driven into the ground to secure the tent, but they don’t have to be driven two feet or five miles into the ground.
We do a lot of driving already buried stakes so far into the ground that the stake itself gets lost – and ignoring other tent stakes that ought to be driven in the ground, as well, to make the tent more secure. That can result in a lop-sided tent.
I have explained to my daughter that being a wife and mother is a great thing….she understands that, but they did tend to drive the tent stake in too far. I think that is all she heard when attending church…live worthily so a good Priesthood holder would deem her worthy of being a wife and mother only. Like she didn’t have any pick in who she would marry, so long as he was a Priesthood holder, didn’t matter if he was a total waste of space so long as he held the Priesthood and that she was going to be so lucky if some man lowered himself to marry her. I think that is where the crux of the issue is for my daughter…the church put her in the place of being the begger for some man to deem her worthy, she wasn’t worthy in her own merits. I think a lot of women see it this way too, the only way they can be a complete person is to be a wife and mother only…and then when they hit 35 they start to get depressed…there is a reason why Utah has the highest rate of anti-depressants prescribed :shh: I know that moments like this are heartbreaking at the time. But, these moments provide us a GREAT opportunity to connect with our children in a meaningful way. You handled it just right. I know that your discussion with her will last for along time. It’s moments like this that reveals to our children what we really believe. She will probably remember this more than any Family Home Evening lession you’ll give her. There are times like this that reveal who our children are becoming. They actually listen to a talk given in church, critically review what was said, then apply what they believe to be true, then discuss it with a parent. That’s what we are suppose to do. We are surprised when it happens at the tender age of 9. I, for one, hope you get many more questions like this.
Excellent! Give her a kiss.
Mike from Milton.
Perfect, Mike – simply perfect. Brown wrote:I honestly know a LOT of Mormon women that have college degrees. It’s not discouraged at all.
I used to admire the Church for encouraging education. I thought the reasons were obvious — it expands the mind, often assists wtih increased standards of living which, while not everything, provide stability and a certain measure of happiness.
Then GBH stood up in conference or a fireside and said the Church was big on education because “it improves the members’ capacity to serve in the Church”.
I felt kinda disillusioned after that one. I would have thought it would be more than just about the Church….but anyway…back to the subject at hand….I intend to mute the influence of “get married and have kids ASAP after marrying an RM” philosophy. My life did not go that way (nor did my wife’s) and you need to prepare your children from multiple life experiences that can happen. One not being able to have children — so pinning their role in life as baby producers only is a misnomer. And I honestly think some women make better providers than caregivers.
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