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Hi Friends, I was born in the church, served a mission, married in temple, and have 3 kids. Two and a half years ago I stumbled upon Michael Quinn’s Post Manifesto Polygamy essay and I went right down the rabbit hole (curse you Michael Quinn). I now consider myself an amateur LDS historian, but I’m careful where I get my information. I take issue with several items in the story of the church, which when combined, concern me. They include: Joseph’s reputation before the BoM and court documents to show for it, the inconsistent Priesthood restoration narrative, Fanny Alger, Nauvoo polygamy and deception of Emma, the succession after Joseph’s death, pretty much anything Brigham said or did, Utah polygamy, the rhetoric around the black curse, etc. Having studied numerous accounts of Joseph, the pattern of character is alarming to me. When I finished RSR, I thought to myself there must be some sort of mental illness there. Then come to find out, we were living not far from an asylum in Illinois where Joseph’s youngest son, David, spent the last 27 years of his life as a patient. That stuff runs in the family. I know from experience. All this concerns me.
The way we present our history makes me uncomfortable and the way we use these one-sided victim narratives to build faith concerns me and makes me nervous about raising my kids. I don’t like the methods we use to build testimonies. It reeks of coerciveness.
My wife does not share my concerns, though she is willing to listen, which I’m grateful for. But there have been some tough times, especially in the beginning when I didn’t know how to articulate my thoughts. I get bitter and upset when I see the church perpetuating a culture that encourages people to view people like myself as broken, less faithful, or nitpicking. It’s extremely hurtful and strains my relationship with my wife. Losing the certainly that the church was 100% what it claimed to be was hard enough, but the complexity, pain and loneliness experienced after that is what makes me most sad. The pain is real. And indescribable. Without any help from me, my parents (both teenage converts) left the church last year over historical/cultural issues. My mom was a silent outsider for years. My dad is still pretty bent over the whole thing. This adds another layer of complexity to my relationship with my wife and in-laws. I’m still trying to somehow make this work for my wife, while feeling good about myself and my integrity.
I’ve been hesitant to join support groups like this, but I think I’ve come to the realization that there is strength in having a place to be completely authentic. It’s for my own health.
Welcome. Your story is not at all unusual here, and I have found this site to be therapeutic. I hope you can find the peace you seek. Hi TheFlea. It sounds like you and I share a lot of the same concerns about church history. I was hesitant to join any support groups as well. I lurked for quite a while before I finally started asking some questions and seeking advice for my personal situation. I haven’t regretted asking. The help I’ve received here has allowed me to keep my sanity during this difficult time. I hope you will find these boards as useful and refreshing as I have! Welcome! Hi Theflea, This is a good place to discuss and talk through what you are going through. I know many here have been in or are in similar situations. Some of use are still in it and working through our own concerns.
I am reading RSR right now (a little more than half way through). Interesting how people in different places see different things in the narrative. Would be interested to compare notes later.
Best of luck on your journey. Feel free to reach out as needed.
-SBRed
“I would like to bear my testimony, I know the church is true…” Our first fast and testimony meeting after starting “down the rabbit hole,” was filled with this sentence. You are so right on having testimony rhetoric drilled into us! It is either this memorized testimony, or some older person gets up and tells a 30 minute story about going grocery shopping. I feel that at church I had too much filler brought to me and not enough meat as far as learning goes. I was getting nothing from it, and the same old watered down lesson manuals did not help either.
I am so sorry about your spouse, I have been lucky with my husband. I will admit, he is a bit further down the rabbit hole than I am, already taking off his garments and trying alcohol, I am not quite ready to take those steps, but we are still very much supportive. I hope that your wife can find a way to keep an open mind/heart, but it really is so hard, particularly when children are involved. My heart goes out to you, and like so many have echoed, you are very much not alone.
Welcome, from what I’ve seen you’re in good company. Interesting dynamic with parents that were converts that both subsequently left due to historical/cultural issues. I look forward to hearing more from you.
Welcome to the site. I, too, was (still am) bothered by the lack of honesty about the church’s history. It is rough when you have been raised to be honest and loyal and then you find out the the institution that tried so hard to teach you those things was deceptive in doing so. I think you will find a lot of good information in dealing with it here though. I really like this forum a lot because there are many people who have redefined their relationship with the church and are making it work for them. I personally favor that approach than being bitter and just ragging on the church for anything that is done. I look at the church more of an entity that encourages me to live the teachings of Christ now instead of being the “only true” one. And I have become a lot more careful what I say to people
😯 As a result, it’s freeing to come here for support.Welcome, The Flea! You’ll fit in nicely here. I hope Silent Dawning doesn’t mind, but I’m posting a reply he made in a different thread. It’s had a profound effect on me in navigating these issues with DH.
Quote:Re: How to handle the point blank questions?
Post by SilentDawning » 28 Jun 2014, 22:32
hawkgrrrl wrote:
I’d be inclined to ask “What do you love about me?” if he said that because it seems as though he’s pushing you in a way that would rub me wrong. He needs to get clear about why he’s married to you, right?
Great question — bring it back to the point. I still remember when my wife told me she didn’t want to stay with our marriage when I had my first commitment crises about 4 years into our marriage. She spoke to a woman in the ward who was married to a non-member.
She told my wife that she felt eternal love should transcend the church.This woman had influence over my wife (she was the primary president, and my wife, a primary teacher) and her words influenced my wife profoundly. That’s what I like about Hawk’s question. It gets to the core of love, not the periphery as your husband is doing.
Hope it helps you. (Added emphasis is mine.)
Welcome! I relate to all of your concerns. I hope you feel comfortable here. TheFlea wrote:I get bitter and upset when I see the church perpetuating a culture that encourages people to view people like myself as broken, less faithful, or nitpicking. It’s extremely hurtful and strains my relationship with my wife. Losing the certainly that the church was 100% what it claimed to be was hard enough, but the complexity, pain and loneliness experienced after that is what makes me most sad. The pain is real. And indescribable.
This has been hard for me, too. My own wife thought for years that I was just being lazy, that I had simply never tried hard enough. At times it makes me so angry to think that church culture “poisoned” her against me like that. Thankfully we’ve worked through that. If I’m being completely honest, I was being lazy to a certain degree—but I was also in a lot of pain through that time, and I was so confused, and I was afraid to talk to anyone about my doubts and concerns for fear of being rejected. I only realized there might be a path to peace after finding this forum. My relationship with my wife is now better than it has ever been.TheFlea wrote:I’ve been hesitant to join support groups like this, but I think I’ve come to the realization that there is strength in having a place to be completely authentic. It’s for my own health.
Exactly. Just having a group of people who really get where you’re coming from, where you can be completely honest in all your confusion and pain, is incredibly therapeutic. We can say things here that we can’t say in church and work through issues that we can’t address in church. It helps so much. I’m glad you are here in our little group!
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