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I will try to keep this as condensed as possible. I grew up in Utah with a strong LDS upbringing. My parents are good christian people, not at all dogmatic about mormon beliefs, but certainly active LDS folk. My dad served as Bishop in my early teen years. I served a mission in Melbourne, Australia. I married my wife in the Manti temple, we have five children. I have served in many different callings in the church. I just recently was released as 1st counselor in the bisophric after five years. I had never for even one moment questioned that the LDS church was in fact the Kingdom of God on the earth in that time. Boy, how things have changed in the last year. Even though I believed that the LDS church was “true”, there was just some aspects of current church teachings that just did not sit well with me. This is not a all inclusive list but here are a few examples. The emphasis on Joseph Smith and prophets in general. The absolute adoration of these men seemed cult like and full of idolatry. I certainly recognize the need of prophets, but saying that everything they say is indeed the will of God tends to make real communication with God trivial. I believe these men are capable of receiving guidance for us as believers, but that is for us to discern in our own spiritual life. If God chooses to withhold blessings because I “discerned” incorrectly that is one thing, but for the church and its members to heap the condemnation/punishment it is a different matter. I do not see much in their current teachings that is “prophetic”, just good practical advice.
The emphasis on works to gain salvation. I could go on a long time about this, but I believe that our salvation comes through the grace of Jesus Christ, not because we deserve it from our “works”. I believe we are saved because he loves us infinitely and descended from his throne on high. We need to accept him, and that can be done in many different ways. I have nothing against good works, but to tie our salvation to works leads to nothing but despair, because you could never do enough.
None of that would have lead me personally to leave the church, but I think it was a huge part of my decision to look into the history of the church with closer examination. Here are a couple of examples that have certainly caused me to at least question.
1- Joseph’s early use of magic and peepstones.
2- “Translation” of the Book of Mormon i.e. peepstone.
3- The first vision differing accounts.
4 – The witness account of “seeing” the plates.
4- Joseph Smith’s sexual behavior starting with Fanny Alger down to all of the Nauvoo explorations.
5- The Mountain Meadows Massacre.
6- The priesthood ban.
The list could go on (this is only a introduction). I shared much of this information with my wife, who was hurt, but supportive. I want to emphasize, that I did not and still do not glory in any of the information that I discovered. It was, and still is, quite painful, but I think as a matter of integrity and honesty I need to acknowledge what at least appears to be accurate.
Many of the apologetic responses to these issues boils down in my mind to one very basic idea. That is doesn’t matter. Joseph could have sleep with every woman in Nauvoo, he could have been a thief, liar, etc. In the end he was God’s prophet and they will use every means to prove that fact. It also bothering to me that the many apologists seem to have a financial stake in the church being true. Whether they are on the church’s pay roll directly or they receive compensation from literature they produce.
I think I am not alone in saying that after discovering this information that I felt there is not a place in the church for a person like myself. After reading many of your stories on this board and others, maybe there is still a place for me. I still go to church. I enjoy Sacrament, but sunday school and priesthood are very difficult for me because of the selective versions of stories that are given. I really don’t know where this journey will take me. I don’t see myself leaving the church completely, but I don’t think that after discovering these things you can ever go back to complete trust in the church version of history or anything they teach completely. But I do enjoy a positive discussion of these matters and interacting with many of the “less faithful”
Hi CJ! Welcome to the challenging journey. Yes it is difficult when your youthful dreams or perceptions get shattered. I commend you for not “throwing the baby out with the bathwater.” Yes, it never returns to a pre-‘crisis’ state, but in many ways for those who stick around activity in the church can become even more rewarding (at least I’ve heard those words a lot). There is a growth that comes through struggle. For me, all those things you list demonstrate how much humanity is mixed into life, even spiritual life that I used to picture differently. Over time it is possible to see the spirituality even among the human frailties, but you have to look for it. I don’t mean that in the typical ‘apologist’ way as a defense of exclusive authority, but in a personally meaningful way still. It sounds like you’re on the road already. Again, welcome!
CJ, what a great post. I feel I am walking with you. Ditto on all this: “I felt there is not a place in the church for a person like myself”, Your “issues” list, “the apologetic responses to these issues boils down in my mind to one very basic idea. That it doesn’t matter”, “Boy, how things have changed in the last year”
No, things will never be the same. So few seem to understand how we can know that with such certainty so deep within. But we have faith they can be better than ever before, and that the church can be better because of it through us.
I’m not strictly speaking a Christian, but for all intents and purposes, I see eye to eye with you about salvation and atonement. As a surprising source once said in tears, “The Father loves us all so much!”
Keep the faith, brother.
Thanks for that introduction CJ. I don’t have the same breadth of issues, but I have the same “spirit” as you — I still go and see the good in the Church, and may well go on to hold other callings, but things about it bother me. I plan to stick with it in spite of the misgivings, but I’m going to have to figure out my own way. Looking forward to more of your comments…. Welcome to the forum, CJ. You may find Fowler’s Stages of Faith and also Wendy Ulrich’s FAIR speech interesting…I did, and I think I was thinking through a lot of stuff you are also, and for me, it was interesting to see how much we are not alone in these thoughts. It is just a process many go through at some stage, and finding a way to go through it and keep relationships (especially family) strong is the most important thing, although not always easy.
I look forward to hearing more of your views as I read your posts and learn from you. Thanks for sharing!
The one thing I found out on this web site is that I am not alone. I share the same concerns you have and have a similar story. Since the church does not allow such discussion, I mean open and honest discussion, I think this is a superb forum for getting it off your chest. That alone is therapeutic. I suspect there are many more, probably in each ward of the church, going through what we are going through. Good luck on your quest. I second Silent Struggle’s comments. I suspect a positive sea change is coming in the church in the near future. In fact, I think it has already begun. Getting rid of the priesthood ban was one of the most positive changes that could have been made in my lifetime. I have struggled with it myself, but am glad to say it’s pretty much over. We have had several black members and missionaries in the local ward here, so I don’t see it as an issue anymore. I think the Quorum of the Seventy is becoming more diverse, slowly, but surely. In the last General Conference, two of the most interesting speeches (for me) were Pres. Uchtdorf (a German) and ?Ayagi, who is Japanese.
… not sure if you guys noticed. This intro was posted over 18 months ago with little followup from the OP. Brian Johnston wrote:… not sure if you guys noticed. This intro was posted over 18 months ago with little followup from the OP.
Yeah, hopefully everyone has noticed that SilentDawning has been going through the old posts.HiJolly
I did…but since it deals with stuff that many people have problems with, it’s worth reviving… SamBee wrote:I did…but since it deals with stuff that many people have problems with, it’s worth reviving…
I agree.HiJolly
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