Hello, how i got here.

[Anonymous]

[Roadrunner commented on the thread I just locked, so I am copying it here.]

Dear deepdivered,

You have many topics in your post and I’m not sure if my reply will help or not, but I’ll comment on prayer. It is something that I struggle with from time to time, and occasionally as I listen to prayers I’ll make a mental note that this is silly. To me prayer is the very embodiment of faith. By definition you are talking to someone that you cannot see, hear, or sense in any way, and in the usual Mormon definition of prayer, you are expecting a very real response. I am someone who sincerely hopes and wants there to be a loving Heavenly Father, and I live in a way that shows that, but intellectually I don’t think he’s there.

I’ve experienced some things that I cannot explain yet (and don’t really want to), some of which involve prayer. My patriarchal blessing was a great comfort to me as a teenager. I have been comforted through prayer and I feel that some of my heart-felt prayers have been answered. My wife and I pray every night and I feel it brings us closer together – although it may just be the habit of holding hands that bring us close together. Prayers serves as a daily reminder of what I think is important because if I vocalize what I want and need I’m thinking about it and prioritizing it. In my life prayer has been a positive influence even though I cannot say it won’t ultimately turn out to be a waste of time and that my ‘answers’ weren’t coincidence or imagined.

A saying that I first heard on the old TV show M*A*S*H was “there are no atheists in foxholes.” I’m sure the saying has been around for eons. I have no basis to back this up, but I wonder if people who pray are more optimistic than those who don’t. I pray all the time even though answers to my prayers are rare.

[Anonymous]

Ray I am sorry. My post seemed better suited for the support section and I’d rather it be there.

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[Anonymous]

Thanks ray

So I have been thinking a lot about Joseph Smith the last couple days. I have great respect for him as a person (except I am little puzzled about what I have read about him and polygamy recently, Right now I am choosing to over look the data as I don’t know how true and accurate it is) I have been talking about him and his inspired version on the bible hear and its been softening my heart.

I have a book called something like the restoration told by thous who saw it. It brought me to tears many times back when I was reading because of how honorable a man he was. I am a softy for story’s of selfless honorable acts lol.

So this puts me with a choice if I decide I don’t believe in god then I’d have to discredit all I think about Joseph smith. I made a great study of him on my mission because like I said my family became active when I was in high school. I developed a testimony of the church and serves a mission (the details of these events are pretty Intetesting and I’ll have to shear some time. I did shear with my wife when we where friends and I learned she was interested in the church. She said its what made her want to actively investigate with the missionarys) erly on in my mission as we where teaching about modern prophets and Joseph smith I was asked ok so what has he prophest? I realized besides the first vision I have like no info about him. That bothered me because how can I testify he is a prophet if I don’t even know basically anything about him. I read anything I could get my hands on about him. A few weeks later my companion/trainer had me tell the part of the first vision and this time I felt I knew for sure it was true and as I spoke and felt more sure of what I was saying I felt the feeling I associate with the spirit very strong as I spoke to them also my body actually started to feel very hot which never happened befor or sense I started to cry as I said I knew Joseph smith is a true prophet. They where watching me very intently and the whole room was silent as they held on to every word I said. From my study’s I could shear more compelling info when questions about him came and blow my comps minds lol

So with reflecting on all this its been softening my heart.

Sent from my evo 3d using Tapatalk 2

[Anonymous]

deepdivered wrote:

Thanks ray

So I have been thinking a lot about Joseph Smith the last couple days. I have great respect for him as a person (except I am little puzzled about what I have read about him and polygamy recently, Right now I am choosing to over look the data as I don’t know how true and accurate it is) I have been talking about him and his inspired version on the bible hear and its been softening my heart.

I have a book called something like the restoration told by thous who saw it. It brought me to tears many times back when I was reading because of how honorable a man he was. I am a softy for story’s of selfless honorable acts lol.

So this puts me with a choice if I decide I don’t believe in god then I’d have to discredit all I think about Joseph smith. I made a great study of him on my mission because like I said my family became active when I was in high school. I developed a testimony of the church and serves a mission (the details of these events are pretty Intetesting and I’ll have to shear some time. I did shear with my wife when we where friends and I learned she was interested in the church. She said its what made her want to actively investigate with the missionarys) erly on in my mission as we where teaching about modern prophets and Joseph smith I was asked ok so what has he prophest? I realized besides the first vision I have like no info about him. That bothered me because how can I testify he is a prophet if I don’t even know basically anything about him. I read anything I could get my hands on about him. A few weeks later my companion/trainer had me tell the part of the first vision and this time I felt I knew for sure it was true and as I spoke and felt more sure of what I was saying I felt the feeling I associate with the spirit very strong as I spoke to them also my body actually started to feel very hot which never happened befor or sense I started to cry as I said I knew Joseph smith is a true prophet. They where watching me very intently and the whole room was silent as they held on to every word I said. From my study’s I could shear more compelling info when questions about him came and blow my comps minds lol

So with reflecting on all this its been softening my heart.

Sent from my evo 3d using Tapatalk 2

Thanks for sharing deepdivered. I love how this forum allows us to get things off our chest. When we keep things inside our head it stays trapped and festers and poisons.

My mission president used to say ‘writing crystalises thought.’ I think that’s what this forum is doing for me.

Thanks for sharing your experience of Joseph Smith.

Here’s a question I’ve not completely considered and wanted to see what you think… (I’ll ask myself the same).

What if there is no God? What if we’re a cluster of organisms floating through an otherwise space? Would you still want to treat your family well and associate with a community that will support you in being a good, kind Father? Would you still want written sources from previous philosophers/theologians who had contemplated life’s big human balances? Would you want a group of similar living thought leaders who continue to develop those life-morals for today’s generation (with a healthy dose of aviation analogies)?

My answer used to be no-way. If there’s not deity behind it I’m better off out, doing my own thing. Now that I’ve lost some of my certainties I’m less sure I want to abandon the good I find in the organisation.

How about you?

[Anonymous]

mackay11 wrote:

deepdivered wrote:

Thanks ray

So I have been thinking a lot about Joseph Smith the last couple days. I have great respect for him as a person (except I am little puzzled about what I have read about him and polygamy recently, Right now I am choosing to over look the data as I don’t know how true and accurate it is) I have been talking about him and his inspired version on the bible hear and its been softening my heart.

I have a book called something like the restoration told by thous who saw it. It brought me to tears many times back when I was reading because of how honorable a man he was. I am a softy for story’s of selfless honorable acts lol.

So this puts me with a choice if I decide I don’t believe in god then I’d have to discredit all I think about Joseph smith. I made a great study of him on my mission because like I said my family became active when I was in high school. I developed a testimony of the church and serves a mission (the details of these events are pretty Intetesting and I’ll have to shear some time. I did shear with my wife when we where friends and I learned she was interested in the church. She said its what made her want to actively investigate with the missionarys) erly on in my mission as we where teaching about modern prophets and Joseph smith I was asked ok so what has he prophest? I realized besides the first vision I have like no info about him. That bothered me because how can I testify he is a prophet if I don’t even know basically anything about him. I read anything I could get my hands on about him. A few weeks later my companion/trainer had me tell the part of the first vision and this time I felt I knew for sure it was true and as I spoke and felt more sure of what I was saying I felt the feeling I associate with the spirit very strong as I spoke to them also my body actually started to feel very hot which never happened befor or sense I started to cry as I said I knew Joseph smith is a true prophet. They where watching me very intently and the whole room was silent as they held on to every word I said. From my study’s I could shear more compelling info when questions about him came and blow my comps minds lol

So with reflecting on all this its been softening my heart.

Sent from my evo 3d using Tapatalk 2

Thanks for sharing deepdivered. I love how this forum allows us to get things off our chest. When we keep things inside our head it stays trapped and festers and poisons.

My mission president used to say ‘writing crystalises thought.’ I think that’s what this forum is doing for me.

Thanks for sharing your experience of Joseph Smith.

Here’s a question I’ve not completely considered and wanted to see what you think… (I’ll ask myself the same).

What if there is no God? What if we’re a cluster of organisms floating through an otherwise space? Would you still want to treat your family well and associate with a community that will support you in being a good, kind Father? Would you still want written sources from previous philosophers/theologians who had contemplated life’s big human balances? Would you want a group of similar living thought leaders who continue to develop those life-morals for today’s generation (with a healthy dose of aviation analogies)?

My answer used to be no-way. If there’s not deity behind it I’m better off out, doing my own thing. Now that I’ve lost some of my certainties I’m less sure I want to abandon the good I find in the organisation.

How about you?

I have thought about that also. I think for me If I decide I am atheist or agnostic then I would still go to support my family and try not to sway them. Because if I think there is no god and they do no harm done. Say I am right and there wrong, as you said the church teaches good values so no harm in letting them adopt them.

I to will keep the values the church teaches I’d be good to be good and stay healthy (wow)

To me this would mean in that case eather js was a great lier, mentally disturbed/delusional, or I convinced my self there was no god when in reality there is.

But like I stated I have not decided this was all hypothetical to answer your queation

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[Anonymous]

Bump.

Can any one else offer some support or help. I am feeling much better. I pretty much deciding maybe god just don’t work the way I think he should lol

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[Anonymous]

deepdivered wrote:

To me this would mean in that case eather js was a great lier, mentally disturbed/delusional, or I convinced my self there was no god when in reality there is.

Hi, I noticed your bump. If you still have specific unanswered questions it might be useful to have a look through the archives to read perspectives on similar things and to comment on them to re-ignite the discussion on that point. Alternatively, start a new topic on the specific question.

In the meantime – about Joseph. Let’s start from the idea that there’s no God. Would that automatically make all other religious leaders from the whole history of the world delusional or liars?

If there is no God then that would suggest that there have simply been people through the ages who sincerely believed they are in contact with God and able to illuminate us on the purpose of life. There are a lot of people that come under that category. Even your Bishop believes he is able to receive direction from God on behalf of his Ward. Is he a liar/delusional too?

None of this is proof of God. But those who dismiss JS and God in the same sentence must do the same for every person who sincerely believes they have, in one way or another, communed with deity.

[Anonymous]

The way I thought about this was that religion started as a way to answer the unanswerable and place hope in life after death. I think they truly felt there was a god. It explained lightning wind fire etc. Then religion was passed down traditionally and split when other ideas arouse.

However I have decided to believe in god because I want to as another said on here and intellectually I am agnostic

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