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DoubtingTom wrote:
If I have to deconstruct everything and reform it in an unorthodox framework in order to find meaning, wouldn’t I be better off finding a new philosophy that doesn’t require so much mental contortion?For now I am committed to continue to attend and I’d love for the process to be at least somewhat enjoyable, meaningful, and inspirational.
Maybe. Maybe not. It all comes down to, what makes you happiest. What gives your life meaning?
No one can stay 100% orthodox in the LDS Church. You’ve got apostles, who directly disobey the direction of the First Presidency. You’ve got prophecies, coming from Prophets which failed (unless you want to do some serious reframing). You’ve got historical discrepancies. You’ve got changing doctrine. And that’s all okay!We’re learning and growing together.
As far as other religions/philosophies go,
PLEASElook into them. Study them. Pull out all the good you can from them! Eastern religions have been very helpful in my faith transition; Especially Bhuddism. They are unique in that they never claim to be the ones with the “absolute truth”. Bhuddism was founded by a man claiming to be nothing more than a man; not a God, not an incarnation of a God, not inspired by God, but a man. Bhuddha taught that no one has an absolute monopoly on truth. The truth he taught was “what worked for him”, and that no teaching of “truth” should be held to so tightly. We’re all meant to learn and grow together.
If interested, a good starting point would be “What Bhudda Taught”. It’s free, on public domain.
https://web.ics.purdue.edu/~buddhism/docs/Bhante_Walpola_Rahula-What_the_Buddha_Taught.pdf On Own Now wrote:
Wow, really great, concentrated approaches in this thread. Thanks to all of you for your thoughts.I’d like to add that one issue I had when I was first thrust into all this was that I found certain things very grating. Anytime someone would talk about the Nephites or tithing, or would use black & white terms, or mix politics with their faith… Ugh… I just got very annoyed by that stuff. But over time, I came to realize that this is just their voicing of their own core beliefs. There’s nothing wrong with people having a faith and then expressing it. I started to see myself as being a guest among a strong religious community, and I now feel more at peace about the difference between them and me. Not saying that I don’t still get annoyed now and then, but it’s a lot less frequent, and that has helped me to see the good more readily. In doing so, I can pretty freely just ignore stuff I don’t accept. I don’t very often have to make conscious effort to deconstruct anything. I just ignore what doesn’t resonate, absorb what does, and find my own experience at Church, defined by my own beliefs. I’ve often said here that the Church, for me, is more like a framework. I have my own, independent beliefs, but the Church works fine for me as a community. In fact, a term that is used a lot here is that the Church is like our “tribe”. It’s familiar and comfortable. It’s pretty easy for me now to stay connected to my tribe and yet have my own, unique beliefs, as long as I don’t constantly draw lines of distinction between their beliefs and my beliefs.
I feel this way too, especially regarding the deconstructing part. You just articulated it much better than I could. I have seen a great deal of growth in myself from three years ago when I thought I could not deal with these things I thought (or knew) not to be true but had to listen to for three hours every Sunday. I just came to the point where it doesn’t matter. I can believe in a figurative Jonah while the guy next to me believes in the literal Jonah (and fish) and get can still get the same message as he does. Reframing things has become much more automatic – the guy at the pulpit is talking literal Adam & Eve, but I hear figurative/symbolic. They speak sheepese, I can understand and speak sheepese – but I’m a llama and in my head it’s all llamaese.
These are all really great. I’m going to have to go back and read some of these responses several times. It gives me great comfort to know some of you have been on this path for years now and have found things to get better, more enjoyable, and more meaningful along the way. I will try to think of myself as still an infant (or maybe a toddler) in my faith transition. The shockwaves of that transition are still cycling through and sometimes I feel hit by seemingly overwhelming waves of grief – similar to the feeling of the loss of a loved one. I am still waiting for the resurrection of a new and more glorious gospel perspective that so many of you seem to have found, but mostly I just feel a sense of loss. From your (DoubtingTom) responses it sounds like you’ve already got things figured out. 
About a year ago there was a thread called
Staying Despite DisbeliefTo be a little more lighthearted about things, not take the journey so deathly serious all the time, I’d say:
The phrase is “monkey see, monkey do” not “monkey hear, monkey internalize” (or “monkey hear, monkey rebut”
doinggood things, hopefully some of that will rub off on me. Who knows, maybe I can do good things and it will rub off on the other monkeys. Sure there are monkeys doing good everywhere and sometimes monkeys like to throw their …I’ll end the analogy there… but to quote Hanno Luschin, “[Monkeys], stand close together and lift where you stand.” Some of the expectations to do at church feel like it isn’t accomplishing anything other than feeding a program for the sake of feeding a program but every once in a while a real need arises and there’s a community there as a safety net with lots of practice that was obtained from feeding programs.
Nibbler, I would definitely not say I’ve got it figured out, but thanks for the vote of confidence! I think I could enjoy this process a lot more and even take it a little light heartedly (which is more my nature anyway) if I didn’t feel so much outside pressure, specifically related to family. But I am trying to enjoy it as much as possible. Some days are better than others. I like how Mom3 referred to the “gift” of having a faith transition. Yeah, some days are most definitely better than others. DoubtingTom wrote:If I have to deconstruct everything and reform it in an unorthodox framework in order to find meaning, wouldn’t I be better off finding a new philosophy that doesn’t require so much mental contortion?
I compare my old paradigm to a puzzle and my new paradigm to a mosaic.
In my old paradigm there was a master plan. Some of the specifics might be murky but the grand outlines are clear. I place my puzzle pieces according to the approved pattern. There are some pieces that do not seem to fit. Perhaps they do not belong to my puzzle and fell in by mistake. Perhaps they belong to a part of the puzzle that has not been fully revealed or clarified yet. It is best to place these pieces of to the side or perhaps on a shelf for further examination at a latter time. (“latter” was a simple spelling mistake but I think I like it
Some major advantages to this approach are feelings of confidence, belonging, and certainty.
My new paradigm is closer to a mosaic. Oh, this piece is shiny. I like it. I will make it the centerpiece of my artful expression. This other piece gives me the willies. I will mentally discard it. I will make my life song out of this mosaic of pieces. I will build it as an act of faith and devotion to what inspires me.
Some major advantages to this later approach are personalization and adaptability. Because it is unique to you it is not really expected or even desired that everyone would believe the same (“Hey, stop copying my mosaic!”). Because it is not based on a master plan it is much more flexible to new information or changing circumstances in an uncertain world.
For another metaphor dealing with the same themes please see the classic, “What the church means to people like me” by Richard Poll.
https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/Dialogue_V02N04_109.pdf dande48 wrote:
Hi Tom,Just because something isn’t true, doesn’t mean it isn’t good or beautiful. The Church, at least in part, is beautiful and good. Try to wrap your mind around the notion “The Church isn’t true.” What value does it still provide? Does it make people happy? Does it inspire people to do good, and develop virtue? Can it still cause a TBM to live a happy and fulfilling life? Can a non-believer like myself still be inspired by it?
Another source that really helped give me perspective is the blog at
http://www.churchistrue.com/ . It’s purpose is to help members like us come to terms with the more troubling aspects of the LDS Church, and take on a new paradigm focused on “goodness” rather than “absolute truth”.Thank you so much for this thought, it made my day better.
Among the good ideas already shared, and because I don’t have time to write a book length reply… One thing I consider often is the idea that our purpose on earth may be boiled down to personal growth. If we take that seriously we are constantly putting events of life into perspective, asking “how does this contribute to my growth?” “How can I use this to become a better person?”
Opposition can aid growth. I can find different types of opposition during my 3 hours in church.
Eugene England’s essay: Why the Church Is As True as the Gospel
http://www.eugeneengland.org/why-the-church-is-as-true-as-the-gospel Edit:
I really appreciate the question and have a couple thoughts to add. Mormon Matters podcast has been a big help to me, listening to different ideas and framings of church topics. If you have time in your day during a commute or whatever, pick a couple episodes that look interesting to you.
They often speak from a foundation of personal spiritual experience, don’t get hung up on this. I have learned the idea is to give huge leeway to the term. In my own experience I may say I didn’t know how to have a spiritual experience until I lost belief in God. Ironically that loss opened me up to new possibilities, and in that openness I had the most profound spiritual experience of my life. As I allowed the shackles to fall off my own image of God the most incredible concept of love and human connection began to sprout in my heart. I like to use the common language: “God began to reveal himself to me.” Be open to what will come to you, live with a curiosity and a sense of wonder.
Caveat: I no longer attend (I guess I’m now inactive) I have really found a lot to like in Noah Rasheta’s approach (Secular Buddhism). I have friends who are in similar positions to you (still attend but are having to create their own meaning) who have also found a good approach and a way to forge some meaningful through what Noah shares. The quote on his website from the Dalai Lama is a great place to start:
Quote:“Do not try to use what you learn from Buddhism TO BE A BUDDHIST use it to be a better whatever-you-already-are.”
– Dalai Lama
Best of luck –
SBRed
SBR, that quote is so deep on so many levels. Thank you. I needed to read that today. Orson, I love how you expressed that experience. It sounds very much like things Christ taught about losing yourself in order to find yourself. We have to be open to what our experiences in this life are teaching us, not try to cram them into a box someone else has framed for spirituality.
Thanks!
A saying that became far more meaningful in my faith transition is “It’s always darker before the dawn”. This is tough. I told you in another post that my hubby began all this and I was the TBM. Do you know he even moved forward and baptized our twin boys even though his heart and mind was not really there. He knew how important is was for me and our boys at the time. Little did I know then (which was 3 years ago) how hard this was for him at the time. Oh how my love for him has deepened and I so appreciate his support. With that being said, I didn’t realize at that time how much I would come to appreciate all of this. I was so worried, disappointed and sad about his faith changes and decline. This is really, really hard stuff to navigate so please be patient with yourself, your wife and the whole process. Find a support system that helps you as you continue to find a better balance with your wife. There are so many resources available and awesome podcasts etc. that help validate you! Sending hugs and best wishes! Awakening wrote:
A saying that became far more meaningful in my faith transition is “It’s always darker before the dawn”.:thumbup: I like this thought, and it can help us stay the course, even when difficult.Awakwning wrote:I told you in another post that my hubby began all this and I was the TBM. Do you know he even moved forward and baptized our twin boys even though his heart and mind was not really there. He knew how important is was for me and our boys at the time. Little did I know then (which was 3 years ago) how hard this was for him at the time. Oh how my love for him has deepened and I so appreciate his support.
I really think this is a good thing to point out. Sometimes, for the sake of family or loved ones, even if our personal heart is not totally in, or we have our doubts…or even we are convinced there is no god or power to believe in with these church rituals…even still…it can lead to such a feeling of love and commitment and service to others. In some ways, regardless of whether there is a god or not, we become enlightened when we are able to participate for motives of love and service because it means something to others. And in doing so, we find the meaning we are looking for. It is hard to explain, and it is not to be taken as hypocritical…simply…another plane of the mystical and meaningful in our lives.I just appreciate how Awakening sees the struggle in this and yet the meaning and value that was achieved through unselfish acceptance and actions, sometimes despite the internal warfare going on. Through actions, some levels of love are manifest that could not be in other ways.
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