- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
I don’t believe the church is true anymore and am trying to decide what to do for my family and children. My wife is fine either way, as she has had doubts for a long time. I don’t want to be dishonest. I can’t handle a calling in the ward, nor my wife. I don’t know if I want to continue to be active because of lack of belief. But if the church would accept me as I am, being respectful during the lessons, without punishing me for not believing (as I currently have a temple recommend, though don’t plan on using it) I would be willing to attend. I posted this on another website but wanted your suggestions as well:
I have enjoyed visiting family in Utah, as we are in the middle of a move to California, though I am looking forward to heading out this week. I have been researching some other church’s, including “RLDS” Community of Christ. I was actually very impressed by the attitude that they seem to have about approaching religion and BOM doctrine. I like that they don’t have a checklist based on interpretations of the WOW. But what I found strange is that they still have a Prophet and apostles? I’m not sure how I feel about it based on the way they have shifted in their doctrine. Though, they seem to be more willing to discuss things then the LDS, with lower expectations of perfection.
However, this has lead me to a strange place. I started thinking about Christ, and found that there is no concrete proof that he even existed. WOW, now this leads me to a whole new frame of mind. Here I am frustrated by the history of the LDS Church, thinking that Christian faiths are more concrete then ours, but find that every Christian church is still based on lack of evidence? This has lead me to a new thought…
A) I live within the LDS faith quietly questioning and a little annoyed at the lack of historical knowledge by most TBM, but don’t upset the family, believing what I can.
I join the RLDS “COC”, with the prophet and all their apostles etc. But they seem less strict, though the stigma of mormonism still exists for them, upsetting the family. But hey they like the BOM and question its validity, so I would probably fit in. Frankly, I would probably fit in more to this church. But again, family and all…C) I join another faith that may be less judgmental in many ways, but still question the TCB’s (true christian believers) for lack of historical knowledge, still hurting my mormon family. Though if I am happier there, maybe it’s no big deal. Yeah right? My problem is these same people are judging the mormons for truth that even they as Christians can’t prove to have, other then popular acceptance, but still know it to be true in their hearts. I find it kind of funny!
😆 D) I accept Theism, and maybe study what ever floats my boat.
It might just make more sense to be the semi inactive mormon that doesn’t pretend to agree but keeps in contact so my family doesn’t think I am completely lost. Then my kids can go to church, giving them a reason to keep me in the fold. I guess I just fear I won’t be able to live up to the temple recommend standards, and would never want to be disciplined. Though, I don’t need my temple recommend. My kids would learn about one religion, including their heritage, and perhaps I could just explain to them that I believe in God but am not 100% sure of the mormon “only truth.” You know, be honest with my kids. I swear I learned that in Primary!
Is it possible to be the mormon goer that doesn’t believe, but still takes the children for social and spiritual reasons? Or would I be considered an apostate? I really don’t want to be a hypocrite, and haven’t been up to this point. The church never told me the complete truth. Just one possible (???) version of it. Now that I know, I have every right to not obey. But, I don’t want to be a trouble maker/problem causer that the leaders feel threatened by. And I could continue being an artist, making films and learning from any source I please, without living up to the church standard of non realistic ideas that as filmmaker I shouldn’t haven nudity, language, etc. I mean common, many people in Utah watch “R” movies! Why can’t I make them? Who has done this and how did it work out? I’ve been going to church for 30+ years.
I suppose I am more concerned about my children being thrown around from church to church, or being raised without the principle of faith. I also think it’s nice for kids to have friendships. But I don’t want to be a faker. I feel comfortable that I don’t believe. For my TBM family I believe excommunication is worse then being inactive. Not going to church is worse then going without believing. My parents do visit me periodically. I’m sure they will want to go to church. Even if I’m not 100% TBM, if I stay in the fold they will have some comfort that my children are learning about the gospel. As far as my beliefs, well I just hope they learn to accept me for who I am. Considering we live in two different states without family, it will be easier. My son has already been baptized and my dad could always give him the priesthood. (keep it in the family) For me, teaching my children about the BOM is no worse then teaching them about the Bible. They are both part of our heritage and culture. Both promote faith. I can still share with them my beliefs in God, excepting them for who they want to become in life. I think my kids will find me to be loving, accepting, and supportive of them regarding religion and faith. How could I judge anyone based on where I’m at in life?
I still haven’t broken any major LDS commandments, though I don’t believe the WOW rule list to be true. Though I do like the WOW without the list. It is a good idea to be healthy! Your thoughts are appreciated…
Your experiences are valuable to me. I am moving into a new home this week and am uncertain of whether or not I should return. The last thing I need is them calling my parents to track down my records. Ironically the LDS church membership called my parents house this week. I picked up the phone. They wanted my brothers ex wife’s address of the children. They will call if I don’t tell them where to find me. Your thoughts please…
What do you WANT to do? Having said that, let me address something you asked. This comment is longer than I anticipated, but:
Quote:Is it possible to be the mormon goer that doesn’t believe, but still takes the children for social and spiritual reasons? Or would I be considered an apostate?
Yes, to both questions.
Quite a few people I’ve known over the years have done just that – and the ones that weren’t members of the LDS Church just have to put up with the inevitable attempts to convert them. After a few years, most people stop the overt attempts, especially in wards where there is a fair amount of turnover and the new people assume the attending non-member is a member. Yeah, there would be people who might consider you an apostate – but most wouldn’t if you didn’t argue in the meetings and just attended quietly. Eventually, you’d be just another project – unless you move to a small branch where they would be more happy and grateful just to have you attend. Unfortunately, people tend to be more accepting of others when they can’t afford to lose them.
Finally, you’ve hit the nail on the head with your observation about other churches. ALL churches are based on faith at the ultimate core, with a buttressing of spiritual experiences on the personal level for some. ALL churches have those who “know” and those who “believe” and those who simply “attend” – all of them. If you leave Mormonism over Stage 4 disaffection, the chances are great that you will accept another denomination simply because it bothers you less in the moment (because it isn’t what you left) or because it is the opposite of what you left – NOT because you believe it is objectively true. As you study the history of your new denomination, you will find all of the issues for which you abandoned Mormonism – ALL of them, in one form or another. So, you will be left eventually with finding your own core, central, foundational principles upon which you will build your own faith and world-view. This is why there are so many non-denominational congregations – but those congregations actually are as protective of their teachings and members as any “denominational” congregations, given the natural (wo)man.
My take is simple:
In order to find internal peace and reconciliation, you are going to have to deconstruct your world-view and re-build it based on what you personally believe – independent of ANY organized denomination. You are going to have to identify exactly what you love about Mormonism and what you don’t love about it, then separate those things into culture, general assumptions and eternal principles.
If you can find somewhere else to worship where “your” eternal principles are taught, without the interference of culture and assumptions that bother you within Mormonism, and if pursuing that “elsewhere” won’t harm those you love, go for it. Give it a test run. See how you feel. If you can’t, stay within Mormonism – realizing you might or might not ever come to view it as “true” in a way that is meaningful for you but that you can see it as “good” for you and yours.
The key is finding a general framework in which you can grow and progress and find joy – and I personally have found that within Mormonism, despite my understanding of all the culture and assumptions that still drive me nuts sometimes. I’m at peace with the “stuff” because I find what I believe is the “pure core” to be so uplifting and ennobling and empowering and mind-blowing. The rest is just the human stuff I will find wherever I go.
Love it Ray! Very wise words. I will only add one small thing:
Old-Timer wrote:You are going to have to identify exactly what you love about Mormonism and what you don’t love about it, then separate those things into culture, general assumptions and eternal principles.
Even if you decide, like I have, that you’re not exactly sure where to draw the line for culture, general assumptions, and eternal principles, and remain uncertain about it, you can still be at peace with it and live in that paradox.Happiness and peace is not found in one’s choice of religion, it is found inside the chambers of your own mind.
@godlives: I agree with everything Ray said. It comes down to you. I have found comfort in engaging the intellectual and spiritual paradigm of the stages of faith, discovering that I can have my cake and eat it too. It’s all a question of semantics, if you have the right intention. Of course, that would be considered apostasy but, then, what wouldn’t…
😈 I think I posted before that I’m a filmmaker too, and I now make only R-rated movies. My in-laws won’t watch them or even acknowledge their existence but my super-TBM parents have, out of support. Which is nice.
I had the same problem with the idea of pretending or dishonesty. That”s why discovering the stages of faith and hashing it out here on staylds.com have been a life-saver. I can be comfortable at church, with my in-laws, with my parents, which would have never been possible. I’m still struggling with framing the concept of faith and belief for my two young boys but I think I’m learning more as I go and will probably be taught by life what the ultimate best way is.
I definitely don’t feel the need to take my kids to church, but my DW feels strongly that she would like to and she wants to go on occasion herself. I’m there with them, having experiences that remind me of my childhood and feeling the friendship and camaraderie that has always existed for me. I don’t want to give that up though it wouldn’t hurt me much if I did.
Anyways, good luck. PM me if you want to talk specifics on the filmmaking side.
You listed at least 4 options (A through D). Those are all examples of changing the contents of your faith without pushing through to a level of comfort with what is inside you. Ray is right. You will find the same basic problems in all faiths. They all hang on a stories that can not be “proven” (whatever that really means in religion). So what is the answer? ahhhhh, yes. That is the question the burns in our minds and our hearts. I can feel you deep deep in that roller coaster turmoil. I promise that you will figure it out. You will. Keep pushing through towards the light. Head towards the surface of the dark dark waters. There’s air and sunshine there.
When you get there, you won’t worry about what everyone will think. You won’t worry about the the possibility of being “disciplined” by the Church for your thoughts. You will be able to love all those people and be at peace. You will love your family as they are. You will love the people in your faith community, regardless of what name it goes by. It might be the LDS Church. It could be somewhere else. Obviously, we are about helping people deal with an LDS choice here. Whatever it is you decide, it will be right.
FWIW, I came to that same conclusion. All things being pretty messed up no matter where I looked, I decided to keep the familiar building blocks I was given in my LDS upbringing. I am comfortable here. I know the local language and customs, and I have already so much invested in it. I feel free to pull in anything else that looks interesting and enlightening. I feel free to jettison what doesn’t work.
Quote:FWIW, I came to that same conclusion. All things being pretty messed up no matter where I looked, I decided to keep the familiar building blocks I was given in my LDS upbringing. I am comfortable here. I know the local language and customs, and I have already so much invested in it. I feel free to pull in anything else that looks interesting and enlightening. I feel free to jettison what doesn’t work.
Thanks for this insight Valoel. I am trying so hard to reconcile all of the doubts and concerns I have. It seems like one minute I am ready to leave and the next I feel to stay, but I am begining to feel kind of peaceful again when I think of reworking my relationship with the church in a way that works for me. No matter how painful it is to stay in, it seems like taking away the foundation of my family’s life would be far more damaging than staying and trying to work it out. If it were just me, this might not be the case, but leaving would devastate my kids and husband (though he is kind enough not to admit it). And I really like the freedom in the thought that I, too, can
Quote:free to pull in anything else that looks interesting and enlightening. I feel free to jettison what doesn’t work.
I have the same feelings you do. Except with regard to Christ. Only because I have had so many experiences feeling His comfort and love I could never deny it. I am a convert and have only been in the church for seven years. I feel the same doubt and confusion about the church though. The only thing that is bringing me comfort is to focus on inner peace. So I allow myself to know that Joseph Smith and some history is disturbing. I had gone many years in non denominational churches before joining the LDS church. I remember not feeling much support, not spiritually, not socially. So I am personally going to try going to church and enjoying the good things. I think I will try and add as many other resources as I can to help me feel more at peace. I have children too. I guess I will just tell them that there is good and bad in all things. We do not have to agree or believe in things that do not feel right to us. I am concerned about feeling embarrassed that others would think I agreed with many of the deeper doctrinal things in the church? Not quite sure how that will be. I guess it will become my mantra that I do have to agree with everything to accept the many many good things. I do not agree with the WoW, but I did just read in Romans that if what we eat or drink causes our neighbor to stumble, better we not partake of it. I guess in our case that is true? I know if I drink it would be very difficult for my kids. Anyway, I am so grateful that there is a place where we can not feel so alone and try and help one another! Thanks so much for your post.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.