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So, my next challenge is getting my son to tolerate church. Or maybe that’s not ambitious enough — to LIKE going to church. In any case, there is a strong need — he is very resistant to going to church because it’s 3 hours long, and he finds it boring. He doesn’t dislike the other boys, but there are none that he enjoys enough that he would, for example, invite them to go go-karting with us, or over for a campfire….I empathize with him about feeling bored and disconnected at church…but I don’t say it out loud. My approach so far has been to thank him for coming, to tell him how happy it makes me to be able to have my son with me when I go to priesthood meeting, to know we are going together as a family (one of the few times we do anything as a family). I use the time in transit to talk to him about things that are important to him (he’s been makign money online in a wholesome way, and wanted to talk about payment processing, which I had to put off. I used the transit time to discuss it). I show a lot of appreciation for him coming, even though I tell him I know it’s hard for him. I remind him that I don’t expect a lot of him, but we appreciate it when he comes with us and that we have it as an expectation he will come.
He presses to skip sacrament meeting, or to leave an hour early, every single time. He has also indicated he’ll trade the church experience for a weekly family home evening instead. And he gets a sullen, sort of bad attitude face and body language when I insist that he comes and give my reasons.
Anyone have any suggestions for how to help a 14 year old boy come to church willingly?
Interestingly we had a somewhat similar discussion today in priesthood. Only the guy who said he forces himself to come most weeks is a 60-year-old ward executive secretary. DarkJedi wrote:
Interestingly we had a somewhat similar discussion today in priesthood. Only the guy who said he forces himself to come most weeks is a 60-year-old ward executive secretary.
I find that with age, it’s getting harder to be fully motivated. Things I used to enjoy seem like a chore sometimes….
The fact that so few people have responded to this particular problem solving post indicates that I think this might be a hard question. If anyone has any advice I’d appreciate hearing it…. I don’t know what to do and the “forcing” model isn’t my modus operandi, but it’s becoming that, and I don’t like it.
It is a hard question, partly because kids are different. There were times when my kids probably would rather not have gone but they also didn’t actively resist. But we do have friends whose kids do actively resist and the kids usually end up not coming (even on Mother’s Day). Another story from today, a family that is usually late arrived sort of extra late today. They usually don’t sit near us, but today that’s where the space was. But it was clear teenage daughter did not want to be there and was forced. I’m not sure that all worked out so well for the parents, her, or her teachers.
Part of our discussion in priesthood, and what led to the guy’s honest admission, was that our faith/belief is what helps us come to church. If we didn’t have testimonies (it was lesson 9 from the Hinckley book) we’d be out golfing or boating or whatever. I agree with that. But I also see the other guy’s point – it’s just boring sometimes and just because you don’t feel like coming to church it doesn’t mean you’re “breaking the Sabbath.” Sometimes it’s just more restful/peaceful at home, and sometimes doing your own thing (like studying the scriptures, listening to music, etc.) is more uplifting. He admitted probably the only reason he really comes is because he feels like he’s supposed to – duty. From a kid’s point of view, the testimony is probably not there and neither is the sense of “duty” (or guilt or fear or whatever you want to call it). In the end we keep commandments because we want to.
ETA: Please don’t misconstrue that I believe coming to church is a commandment – I don’t. I believe it is a commandment to keep the Sabbath and that church can help us do so, but church is not a requirement of doing so.
DarkJedi wrote:
But it was clear teenage daughter did not want to be there and was forced. I’m not sure that all worked out so well for the parents, her, or her teachers.
I am balanced about it — Stake and General Conference — we don’t go to church. If I am swamped in my work, and I can’t go, then my son doesn’t either. We go about 3 times a month on average. I am very kind and loving about it, but firm, and I prepare him the night before that he will be going the next day, to get his clothes together, and that I don’t want a debate every time Sunday rolls around. I remind him that we don’t require Scouts, Priesthood Meetings, or weekly youth activities either, so our standards are very minimal. I try to give intrinsic reasons such as a) being together as a family b) how it makes us happy to have him with us c) that I think it’s good to learn good values during this phase of his life…etcetera.
He gets back rubs (we sit at the bank as he leans forward, bored), and I often have my arm around him (he is very small for his age). And I try to make conversation fun and engaging whenever possible. Afterwards I always tell him how much I appreciate him coming with us.
Not sure what else to do.
Where’s my mind at? I feel like all of my posts this morning have a theme. Sorry if this offends but: What’s more preferable, convincing someone to enjoy eating cardboard or giving someone that is complaining about eating cardboard something else to eat?
SilentDawning wrote:
He presses to skip sacrament meeting, or to leave an hour early, every single time.
Every single time? For me that would represent a
reductionin the requests to go home. The constant barrage of petitions to not go to church only end once we’re there, then it shifts over to an unceasing “let’s go home” “let’s go home” “let’s go home.” The. Entire. Time. Entire time. It’s supremely annoying. What’s really difficult is that their logic is air-tight. “Church is boring.” “Well… well… okay, you got me.”
I have terrible advice because I’m currently having a time with it but:
1) This may exacerbate the issue but I validate. “Yup, church
isboring.” 2) I try to offer up alternative reasons for attending. Most adults are telling you that you come to church to “gain a testimony” or to learn the gospel or whatever… but I’m going to say come to church to see your friends and ignore the rest if you have to. I’d rather a kid come to church, enjoy it because they get to be with friends, and maybe accidentally learn some gospel while they are there than the alternative approach of “sit down, be quiet, quit talking to your friends, I’m trying to teach the same lesson we’ve already had 3 times this month!”
3) What is the retention rate for youth? You have a kid that hates church? Congratulations, it sounds like he’s a normal, healthy kid.
It would be one thing if the church was so awesome that 90% of kids were staying and loving it to death. If you have a kid that doesn’t enjoy church you might be tempted to think, “What’s wrong with my kid?” (even though I think that would be wrong). But in this case it’s not even that. It’s a church with a 30-35% activity rate. Kids are going to leave. It’s a part of the nature of the church.
– – –
In your situation it’s going to be more difficult because, am I correct in saying your kid doesn’t have friends in the ward? Church friends can get you through those rough patches, otherwise church is like those last few years of primary where you’re begging to age out… even as an adult.
nibbler wrote:
I have terrible advice because I’m currently having a time with it but:1) This may exacerbate the issue but I validate. “Yup, church
isboring.”
I was going to post this today.
There’s a most likely follow-up question: “Then why do you go, dad?” That’s a good conversation to have.
A little insight on kids from someone with ADHD. (Turns out that having ADHD makes it easier to understand kids.) Boredom can actually hurt. It can be uncomfortable in the same way as getting your ear flicked continuously, walking with a rock in your shoe, listening to fingernails scratching a chalkboard, or having an itch in that place on your back that you can’t scratch. It can make you want to stand up, scream at everyone, and run away. Most adults forget this.
Nobody actually learns to feel better about being bored. We learn resignation and coping strategies, and develop interest in topics that previously felt meaningless. But mostly, as we get older, we need less short-term reward in order to feel right. (Kids are wired to need more stimulation because it tends to help them learn what they need to know to propagate the species, such as how to get food and that they like members of the opposite sex a lot.) Adults usually badly approximate all these changes with “I toughed through it until it wasn’t so boring.” Nah, bro. Your brain chemistry changed as you aged.
With boredom that hurts, almost anything that decreases it is good in terms of long-term outcomes. A kid is likely to come to one of two extremes, both of which are undesirable: internalize (“I shouldn’t want to run away screaming – what’s wrong with me?”) or externalize (“I hate this place and wish I could burn it down”). I almost exclusively externalized as a kid and as a young adult. My kids tend to internalize.
I have no specific ideas for you, SD, just an idea about how your son might experience the world differently from you.
Thanks for the input Reuben. The kid with the most difficulty at church has ADHD. Reuben wrote:
A kid is likely to come to one of two extremes, both of which are undesirable: internalize (“I shouldn’t want to run away screaming – what’s wrong with me?”) or externalize (“I hate this place and wish I could burn it down”).
What if you say, “I hate this place and wish I could burn it down, what’s wrong with me?”
But seriously. Any advice for helping a person with ADHD cope with church? We’ve found that punishment/reward has absolutely zero effect. A bouncy band under the pew? A Nintendo Switch? Should we ask the deacons to include our kid on the gluten free sacrament bread circuit? (jk) I’m reaching here, I’m desperate.
nibbler wrote:
But seriously. Any advice for helping a person with ADHD cope with church? We’ve found that punishment/reward has absolutely zero effect. A bouncy band under the pew? A Nintendo Switch? Should we ask the deacons to include our kid on the gluten free sacrament bread circuit? (jk) I’m reaching here, I’m desperate.
Punishment/reward usually doesn’t work on people who don’t experience anticipated punishments and rewards very strongly.
My kids draw a lot during church. Each has a sketch book. As a kid, I drew and did origami with the SM programs. Still the best use for them IMO.
My kids also drink Diet Coke every morning, and it seems to help. We used to not have sugared cereal in the house, and breakfast usually featured peanut butter, which also seemed to help. Nuts contain a lot of the essential amino acid tyrosine that dopamine is made from; so do green vegetables. (I’m still looking for a taker for my “Ooh, Shiny!” breakfast bar idea: a peanut butter bar covered in low-sugar chocolate, fortified with caffeine and B vitamins, in a silver wrapping. Everything you need to jump-start your brain in the morning. Commercials would feature kids bouncing on the ceiling until they spot one, drop, and devour it like a wood chipper.)
In general, manage the brain’s operating environment. Good sleep is essential (but hard to do consistently), exercise is great. Movement helps move dopamine around, so let them wander a bit. Let them have a bit of fun before the boring stuff and they’ll weather it better, but put a time limit on the fun so they don’t overindulge. They’ll complain, but they’ll be happier.
Don’t moralize expectations of sitting still and listening raptly, and go to bat for them when other parents invariably do that.
If all this doesn’t work, and it’s not just church that’s a big struggle, consider medication. I wish I had had it earlier in life. As it was, all the time-management skills, goal-setting, etc., never sank in because none of it worked for me. It’s a lot harder to learn it when you’re older.
SilentDawning wrote:Anyone have any suggestions for how to help a 14 year old boy come to church willingly?
give him an iPhone……………..
Our ward councils have been trying to address this issue for months. Here are some of the things that have come out of that discussion:
– Tell the youth they SHOULD want to be there, it is for their own good, someday they’ll thank you
– It is a reflection on the parents. If the parents understood the importance of the Sabbath Day better, they’d be teaching the kids better that they have to stay all 3 hours
– Youth cannot spiritually grow if they don’t put in the time. Testimonies don’t happen by themselves.
– Youth have to stand in holy places…they have to be in church to experience the good in church
– Make games and give treats in class to keep youth there, reward them like rank advancement carrot and stick programs…and while there they will pick up on spiritual nuggets
(actually followed by the next comment by someone else that we should not be here to entertain the youth and bribe them…they should WANT to be there if they really love God)
– The ward is strengthened when we attend, we become a unified ward
– We don’t always get to do what we want, we have to do what we should do and obey our leaders
– “When I was a kid, we didn’t have a choice. Our parents just made us go.” (My thoughts listening to him say that- so apparently…because we had to live through it as youth, we want others to live through the boredom too…and maybe that is fair to us????
So…ya. That was our discussion. And honestly…pick any of those…and do any of them speak to my teenagers to help them want to be there?
Nope. My only question to the council: “Why does it matter if the youth come or not? If we can’t answer that, you can believe the youth are thinking that”
They’ve had sacrament talks and 3rd hour combined meetings to the parents about it…I still don’t think they’ve answered the question…”why?”
I think it is just something youth have to do if their parents say they have to do it…like mowing the lawn.
So…how do I handle it? I don’t always make them go. I would rather have a positive relationship with my kid, and let them skip sometimes and trade up to good activities outside church than always go and sit and be bored and resent it and resent me when they are older.
There is value to going to church, and my kids need to be there to experience it. But…it is OK to tell them it is boring, and it is ok for me to support htem in skipping sometimes as long as I see them making efforts in other areas of life.
I can’t explain Stage 5 to them yet…but I can pave the way for them so they can get there when they start not wanting to be in Stage 3 anymore. I can be an example to them of making the most of a boring situation, and also keeping expectations realistic. My bishop and Youth Leaders don’t agree with my approach. They say it is a hard fast rule…always be there and if it is boring it is your fault. That is a reflection of them, not the truth.
Let the kids skip if it helps them keep their sanity. Don’t let them skip to play video games all day. That isn’t healthy.
Sometimes it is presented to the youth that it is just something we do as a family together, and they are part of the family. But also…know what else we do as family some weekends? We skip and go fishing. This teaches them the importance of doing things as a family that are meaningful. And as their parent…I want them to know I get bored too…and I’d rather do fun things together, but I also see value to being involved at church. We do it “our” way in the family.
Make it fun to do things as a family and have family memories together. That sometimes includes playing quiet games in sacrament meeting when it is boring together, and laughing quietly. Those are good memories too.
My 2 cents.
Heber13 wrote:
– It is a reflection on the parents. If the parents understood the importance of the Sabbath Day better, they’d be teaching the kids better that they have to stay all 3 hoursWhat a wonderful tactic; shame the parents and see if the whole family will go inactive instead of just the kids.
Not too long ago my kids were too young for us to consider leaving them home alone for more than a few minutes. My son would be forced into coming to his older sister’s swim practices where he would read or play portable game machines. Now that staying home is a viable option the kids have some additional choice.
There are some activities that are family activities that the kids must attend simply because that is what we are doing together as a family or perhaps dinner is being served at the activity and that is our meal plan for the evening.
However, there are a number of programs or activities that we plan on that do not fit into these categories. Maybe a library craft and story time or a festival at the park. For these activities we let one of our children stay home provided that they do not use electronics while we are away. (the thought being that we would prefer for them to get out of the house and if the kids had the choice of nearly anything vs. electronics, they would likely choose electronics).
Church does fall into something that the kids must do simply because it is what we do as a family – however, even here there is room for compromise.
My own son loathes sharing/music time primary and we have made a deal with him that if he will go to class we will come get him at the beginning of the third hour. Then he will sit in our adult class (EQ or RS) and read.
NightSG wrote:
Heber13 wrote:
– It is a reflection on the parents. If the parents understood the importance of the Sabbath Day better, they’d be teaching the kids better that they have to stay all 3 hoursWhat a wonderful tactic; shame the parents and see if the whole family will go inactive instead of just the kids.
I know…right??? The kicker was…they were talking about my step-son and step-daughter by name…with me in the room…and talking about the parents not teaching them right…with me in the room.
Hellllooooooo. I’m right here. I get the picture…you all think I need to teach my kids better. I just tried to give them my point of view…if they wanted to hear it…that if church is boring…telling the kids they SHOULD like it will not help. Guilting parents WILL NOT HELP.
Meh…who cares. I took my step-daughter out to get a sandwich 2nd hour so we could talk about her stress she had that day. Then she went back to 3rd hour of YW and was in a great mood. It made a great memory for our family.
I think people need to relax a bit at church…and make things more meaningful to the individual youths…that they are important…more than rules and attendance records. Youth need to feel they are important and cared about to help them overcome their insecurities.
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