Hi and thank heavens you are here

[Anonymous]

Hello friends.

I’m so glad to see there is a support system out there for those of us who have been disillusioned.

I am a single mom of two children with special needs and an advocate for more awareness about domestic violence. Which takes place far too often in the church because — too often in the LDS culture, the institution of marriage is deemed more important than the safety of the people within.

I stayed in a temple marriage from hell, where my husband looked like an angel for 25 years because I felt sure that no one would ever believe me. My Ex would do his home teaching, serve others with a smile and then come home and emotionally taser each one of us. On two different occasions he refused to give me a blessing, but he was quick to get dressed up and run out the door to anyone else in the ward who asked for a blessing.

My oldest son just left the church because of the way Kate Kelly was treated. And I am on the verge of leaving. My current bishop clearly adores my husband and thinks that I made a mistake by wanting to leave the marriage. He has told me that I don’t have it any harder than any other parent. And even though I have gone to great lengths to show him how hard I work, he seems unable to think well of me. In short, I am tired of being kicked while I’m down by men in authority in this church.

That being said, I feel my prayers have been heard. I have been greatly blessed with spiritual comfort and have good people as my friends and visiting teachers. It’s just hard when you see the unhealthy, untrue side of the church.

I would love to hear any input you may have as I am trying to sort this out. What are your thoughts?
[attachment=0]church-chart.png[/attachment]

[Anonymous]

Welcome. I, too, am grateful that there is a place for those of us who doubt and question. I am sorry for the experiences that you have had to endure, but it’s good you do have some “live” support – something many of us here lack. I am still on a quest to separate the church and the gospel, not because I hold ill will against the church but because I have come to understand that the two are separate anyway. I don’t necessarily agree with all of the chart you posted, but I certainly agree with the first line and a few others. Would you share the link where it came from? (Of course don’t break forum rules if it came from an anti site.)

I hope you find the peace you seek.

[Anonymous]

Every aspect of the list can be and is accurate in some local units, but they aren’t accurate in many other units. It really does depend on local leadership, to a large degree – leadership roulette, as it’s known here.

Welcome!

[Anonymous]

Hi Ray,

Thanks for your input. And I think you are right. It can vary widely from Sunday to Sunday, let alone from ward to ward. Basically I never know what will happen on Sunday. I find that “the philosophies of men, mingled with scripture are all over the place within the LDS culture.

So, in an effort to simplify, I have decided that if it helps me feel faith, hope or charity then I will cherish it, and if it discourages and stresses me out, then I will discard it.

[Anonymous]

Hi Dark Jedi,

It is nice to meet you. I made the chart this morning and then just made a screenshot and put it on the forum. Please feel free to make a screenshot if you wish. I have no intentions of publishing it beyond this forum for now.

Thanks,

Two lamps

[Anonymous]

Quote:

I have decided that if it helps me feel faith, hope or charity then I will cherish it, and if it discourages and stresses me out, then I will discard it.

That’s similar to how I approach things – with the caveat that I understand and accept the fact that different people see things differently, so I have to grant them the same privilege, even when what they cherish doesn’t match what I cherish (and, in some cases, even when I really dislike something they cherish).

[Anonymous]

I think you have a great chart up there in your opening post. I’m sorry to hear about your problems in your marriage — but I understand the powerful expectations the church exerts (implicitly) about staying married when maybe its not a good idea.

I hope you’ll post issues here as separate threads so people can provide advice beyond welcoming you to the forum.

[Anonymous]

Hi Ray,

I love your quote. “I have to grant them the same privilege, even when what they cherish doesn’t match what I cherish (and, in some cases, even when I really dislike something they cherish).”

I could picture the times we have all bristled in church as someone was “cherishing” something that was revolting to us.

I think it will bring a smile next time this happens in church.

Silent Dawning, I love your screen name. I can’t help but wonder if you are an artist. I look forward to posting my ideas on other threads of the forum as you suggested.

[Anonymous]

Thanks — I’m actually a musician. Jazz mostly. I like to write songs, and people do call me creative in certain respects. Silentdawning refers to the way I learn. I’ve been learning for a long time (multiple master’s degrees, certifications, certificates, and now, a PhD, so its starting to hurt). To make it easier, I like to learn by glossing over material to get an overview. Let it settle, re-read it again a bit more deeply (but not too hard), and then read it again very deeply.

I find I learn better and easier that way. I thought it was fitting on a site where we are trying to learn about truth and assimilate our own way of viewing the gospel.

I’m looking forward to your posts.

[Anonymous]

Awesome! I write music too. I am not half as educated and having practically killed myself to get a Bachelor’s, don’t foresee graduate school.

But I do love to learn, and I love the way you describe how you learn.

Looking forward to getting to know you better.

[Anonymous]

Welcome to the site, and glad you are here. I like your chart, too. I think you could relabel it “Human” and “Divine” and still keep the list as it is. For some reason, when we were young, it was easy enough to believe that “church being led by Christ” meant “everything the church does is in accordance with the gospel of Christ.” It’s definitely a human institution that strives to help people be more like Christ, yet we consistently fall short, every one, some more than others, and leaders often most of all (unfortunately). Bear in mind that the original twelve were no prize either. They were dumb as rocks for the most part.

[Anonymous]

I just wanted to say welcome to you. This is a good place to start your transitional phase. I an sorry for the difficult time you are having with your ex. At least it might be a little easier to figure out things with the church if you don’t have a spouse that will not support you durning this difficult time. I liked your chart. you may discover that it will change over the next couple of years. I know that I have changed many of the ways I believe and I am good with that. I am surprised how many people where effected by the Kate Kelly exing. I have some family visit us this last week and they too on on the verge of leaving over that issue along with many other issue but the KK one is the one pushing then over the edge. I look forward to hearing more from you.

[Anonymous]

Hi Hawkgrrrl,

Thank you for the suggestion:) I will do that. I think your suggestion of Human and Divine it brilliant, it simplifies things.

Luckily my first 11 years of life were not in the church. So I was never completely orthodox, especially now.

I actually found the church via my first foster home. Both of my parents were addicts. As you can imagine, coming to a nice “stable” foster home after dealing with addicts and domestic violence was a slice of heaven.

[Anonymous]

Hello Church 0333,

Thanks for your welcome and insight. I think it will be interesting to see the changes as they come about too.

When I first heard about KK, it was in a religion class and BYU-Idaho. They way he referred to her made it sound like she was laying her hands on other people’s heads and ordaining them with the priesthood.

Then my son started talking about how much agreed with her and so I checked out her website. I can’t see that she did anything wrong.

I saw somewhere on the forum a quote that said “The local leadership did more damage to the church than KK and John Dehlin combined.”

I would go so far as to say that I am still semi-active in the church because of KK and John Dehlin. If it was left up to local leadership I would have made my exit already.

[Anonymous]

twolamps wrote:

Then my son started talking about how much agreed with her and so I checked out her website. I can’t see that she did anything wrong.

There are some here who will agree with you, but I can’t say she did nothing wrong. It’s one thing to have an opinion that women should receive the priesthood. It’s entirely another thing to protest and demand so while recruiting others to do the same, especially after being asked not to by the leadership.

[Author]

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