Hi and thank heavens you are here

[Anonymous]

twolamps wrote:

Then my son started talking about how much agreed with her and so I checked out her website. I can’t see that she did anything wrong.

I can’t either. However, she did things that the church does not allow of its members:

1. Gathered followers for her own cause,

2. Demanded change,

3. Disobeyed her leaders when they told her to stop doing 1 and 2.

The fact is, these three things together are almost a sure recipe for excommunication. I think KK knew this all along. Does that mean what she did was wrong? I don’t think so, but my opinion is coming from a very different perspective than most members.

[Anonymous]

Quote:

1. Gathered followers for her own cause,

Or conversely, there are like-minded people who all came together and are independent thinkers who posted their own profiles. “Her” cause is also theirs.

Quote:

2. Demanded change,

Or conversely, requested that leaders pray for revelation, which is what they said. I think the phrasing “Ordain women” sounds like a demand, but it isn’t. Also, the site’s mission statement said that nothing short of ordination would create equality, but it sounded more like an opinion when I read it, not a demand per se. It’s a matter of interpretation I suppose. Church leaders took it in the context of a demand. It was a poor word choice IMO given the church’s hyper-sensitivity to face-saving.

Quote:

3. Disobeyed her leaders when they told her to stop doing 1 and 2.

And by “leaders,” you mean the PR department who didn’t so much tell her to stop as tell the press that they should stop. Or maybe you meant her local leaders who brought her in for a conversation. They “agreed to disagree,” then her leaders assumed she would take that as a cease & desist order, and she took it as a lively discussion. Isn’t Mormon Passive Aggression dandy?

[Anonymous]

By the way, welcome twolamps! I forgot to say that in my last post 🙂.

[Anonymous]

hawkgrrrl wrote:

Quote:

1. Gathered followers for her own cause,

Or conversely, there are like-minded people who all came together and are independent thinkers who posted their own profiles. “Her” cause is also theirs.

Quote:

2. Demanded change,

Or conversely, requested that leaders pray for revelation, which is what they said. I think the phrasing “Ordain women” sounds like a demand, but it isn’t. Also, the site’s mission statement said that nothing short of ordination would create equality, but it sounded more like an opinion when I read it, not a demand per se. It’s a matter of interpretation I suppose. Church leaders took it in the context of a demand. It was a poor word choice IMO given the church’s hyper-sensitivity to face-saving.

Quote:

3. Disobeyed her leaders when they told her to stop doing 1 and 2.

And by “leaders,” you mean the PR department who didn’t so much tell her to stop as tell the press that they should stop. Or maybe you meant her local leaders who brought her in for a conversation. They “agreed to disagree,” then her leaders assumed she would take that as a cease & desist order, and she took it as a lively discussion. Isn’t Mormon Passive Aggression dandy?

I don’t want to digress and turn this intro post into another Kate Kelly thread, Hawkgrrrl. However, it’s pretty hard to argue that she did not attempt to gain followers to her cause (even if it was like-minded people) and continue to do other things while on probation (those weren’t just friendly meetings – the result was probation that lead to the DC).

That said, I don’t particularly care about the issue of women and the priesthood. I don’t see that the priesthood holds any actual power, at least spiritually. Maybe the brethren should pray about – but I wouldn’t hold my breath. I don’t think it’s worth leaving the church over, there are certainly more earth shattering things I’d be more inclined to leave because of.

[Anonymous]

[Admin note]: I usually don’t write this forcefully, but this will not turn into another OW thread. We have good discussions in other threads (including one of the longest in our archives – over 200 comments) for anyone who wants to continue that discussion.

[Anonymous]

twolamps wrote:

..

.

I saw somewhere on the forum a quote that said “The local leadership did more damage to the church than KK and John Dehlin combined.” ….

Yep. And I stand by it. It is true.

Welcome. And…peace.

[Anonymous]

Hi twolamps and welcome to the site!

It sure sounds like you have been through a lot and I just wanted you to know that I am glad you found us. I hope the forum here can help you sort some things out as well as provide a place where you can vent and bounce thoughts and ideas off of those who are like minded. As for me (and it sounds like you too), it has helped coming into this being a person who is not just black and white.

I wish you well as you sort things out and hope this place can be a good resource for you.

[Anonymous]

Twolamps,

Thank you for posting about your experience, and for having the courage to get out of your destructive marriage. Abusive and controlling marriages in my experience is something the church leadership likes to pretend never happens. It is so devastating when no one believes you, and then there is also no help for either of you. You sound like a really strong person!

[Author]

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