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I’ve been reading some of your posts here over the last couple of weeks, and I am relieved and encouraged by the fact that people like all of you are actually out there in the Church. In reading your posts, I feel that a weight has been lifted from my shoulders. So I would first like to thank you all for being a part of this community. I’m looking forward to finally being able to share my thoughts and feelings more openly. So here’s scooter’s story: I was born in the church to parents that converted a few months before I was born. I grew up taking part in the seemingly endless activities for the youth and doing my ‘duty’ in the priesthood, but I was FAR from worthy of the priesthood (if you catch my drift), as virtually all my friends were non-members. I chose to attend a state university instead of going to BYU and decided not to go on a mission at 19. Before my 20th birthday, I had a change of heart, and even today, I’m not really sure why. Perhaps it was the support of the EQ presidency. I suddenly had the desire to serve a mission. I met my wife in the singles’ ward and we are happily married and have two small children.
I don’t have one experience or a series of experiences that challenged my faith, but I feel like now that I have a little life experience under my belt, I’ve felt like the world isn’t so black and white, but all shades of gray. Since coming here, I feel like it’s not just shades of gray, but all the colors of the rainbow (to borrow John Dehlin’s analogy). So one could say that my faith is simply faltering or my faith is/always was weak or whatever it is that they say, but I think it’s mostly that I’m starting to put my family first now, and I’m letting go of the guilt that plagues me of not being able to do EVERYTHING that the Church expects us to do.
Part of the problem I’m having now, though, is how to detox, so to speak. Part of me is tempted to throw the WoW out the window (already started drinking coffee – whoops!), and stop paying tithing for little while and catch up on our finances. But it’s hard. I’ve been programmed all my life to be and act a certain way. On several occasions, there were times when I feel like I really did feel the spirit, but knowing now what I didn’t know then, I wonder if it was testifying of something bigger than just the BoM or just ‘the one true church’, etc.
Sorry, I’m all over the place with this intro. After writing this, I can tell will need to work this out a little bit at a time over several posts. Thanks!
Nice to have you scoot. I’m also not a big fan of tithing, mechanized service born out of duty, etcetera. I also believe in making sure the church doesn’t interefere with other priorities. And that makes me happier in my church relationships. Anyway, welcome. Looking forward to hearing from you…for now, gotta SCOOT!
Hi Scooter, Welcome. Thanks for posting an introduction. It’s nice to meet you. I can related to some parts of your story. I made one of those big 180 deg turns when I decided to serve a mission too, and the realities of life later on was probably the single biggest disonance/breaking factor that pushed me along on my faith transition.
As far as making changes to your life and religious practices, I know what you mean. It’s can be both hard and necessary at times to change our thinking. As always, we recommend going slow and being contemplative about that. There’s no rush. We also like to focus on trading up when we make changes — like if we need a break from attending church (for example), that we replace that time with something else we find deeply spiritual and inspiring. Or if we give less in tithing to the Church, we replace it with some other form of giving or service that has meaning.
There’s also nothing wrong with continuing to do the same thing, but adjusting our way of making meaning out of it. That’s often the least disruptive, if one can pull it off.
How is your wife doing with all this? Are you guys on the same page?
Brian Johnston wrote:
How is your wife doing with all this? Are you guys on the same page?Thanks for your replies, Brian and SD. My wife and I often talk about church and spiritual matters, so she knows that the church doesn’t really matter to me right now, and she knows that providing for our family is my main focus. That being said, I’m hesitant to unload everything on her at once as I don’t want to frighten her and make her believe I want to leave the church. I can see incredible value in what the church provides in terms of community, spirituality, etc. And I fully plan on raising our kids in the church. But she has some doctrines herself that she’s not completely ok with herself and it’s always been that way, so maybe we’re more on the same page than I think.
Welcome scooter. You will find that your thoughts & experiences are not much different from many of us. I’m looking forward to read more about you.
Any meaning to the name “scooter”?
Mike from Milton.
Hi Scooter! As Brian said, take your time, no need to make radical changes. It’s good that you and your wife have already started discussing some of this. Being able to be honest with a spouse makes a signficant difference! Nice to have you here. Love to hear more about your experiences. Mike wrote:
Any meaning to the name “scooter”?
No, not really. I suppose I do like scooters though!
afterall wrote:
It’s good that you and your wife have already started discussing some of this. Being able to be honest with a spouse makes a signficant difference!The problem I have with being telling her everything I’m feeling and thinking is that, as one can imagine, letting go of the idea that ‘all the doctrines are either true or false’ is really difficult when you really truly believe in (or even hope for) some of them. Eternal families is the biggest one. I think she feels that if she admits that not everything the church tells us is true, then eternal families may not be true as a result. Really hard to let go of. To be honest, I’m struggling with that a little bit myself.
Scooter, Welcome. I found this site not that long ago myself, and like you, it was just such a relief to feel like I wasn’t the only one. I enjoyed your perspective, and hope to hear from you on an ongoing basis.
Couple of thoughts.
On talking to your wife… and later, with your kids… Family secrets aren’t good. I encourage you to be open. However, I think you are wise not to “unload” on her. I am very very glad that I took a stance early on, that I wasn’t going to try to convince anyone else to believe like me. I had my “faith transition” (a term that Brian uses, and which I find very satisfying and soothing
back in the 90’s… I’ve been able to walk the tightrope, and my wife is still a fully believing member. Had I tried to force her to “see the light” I think that would have been very damaging to her, and likely would have resulted in a much less favorable situation. I’m open with her (and my adult kids) that I don’t believe, but I never ever ever try to convince them. That is their decision. We do talk about cultural issues. I don’t like the marginalization of women, and we talk about that freely. But I don’t get into matters of doctrine or past faults of the church… like polygamy, because that could only serve as an argument why she should break with the church, and that’s not something I want for her, because she doesn’t want it for herself. I try also, to be respectful of the church and her beliefs. I’m married to her… I live with her… I love her… so there is no other way I can be, but to be accepting of her faith.On wading into the previously-forbidden actions with gusto… This is a tough one. I would suggest that you resist the urge to go do all the things you’ve kept yourself away from because of the church. You may eventually do them, but I wouldn’t do it on an impulse. Let your mind/spirit settle to where you are comfortable, and see where you land. I believe what you’ll find is that many things make sense and are worthwhile apart from the church dictating it as a commandment from God. If you drink coffee now, it doesn’t matter, but if you start smoking/drinking/getting tattooed, and having sex with your coworkers, you might find that where you land isn’t where you would have chosen to land. That’s the self-centered way to look at it (what’s best for you), but an equally, maybe more, important way to look at it is how this affects your family. I would venture to guess that your wife didn’t sign up to be married to someone that throws back a couple of beers every night after dinner. Is drinking evil? No. But if it will make your wife uncomfortable, then you shouldn’t do it out of love/respect/deference to her. One trick I use on myself is to remind myself that I’m the one who changed, not my wife, so the burden should be mine, not hers.
Nice to you, scooter. I hope to hear some more comments and experiences from you. Welcome! Nice intro and few response posts! You seem to fit in well with the group. Glad you’re here!! scooter wrote:I feel like it’s not just shades of gray, but all the colors of the rainbow
Hence…my avatar. There may be one source of the light, but in this life, we may all be only able to see different shades of it…which doesn’t mean we see different things, just see things differently.
Others have given such great responses already, I don’t have much more to add. But On Own’s last part really struck me:
On Own Now wrote:One trick I use on myself is to remind myself that I’m the one who changed, not my wife, so the burden should be mine, not hers.
:clap: Great thought!Go slow, and always ask what it is you need to learn with your new views.
Again, welcome.
On Own Now wrote:Scooter,
Welcome. I found this site not that long ago myself, and like you, it was just such a relief to feel like I wasn’t the only one. I enjoyed your perspective, and hope to hear from you on an ongoing basis.
Couple of thoughts.
On talking to your wife… and later, with your kids… Family secrets aren’t good. I encourage you to be open. However, I think are are wise not to “unload” on her. I am very very glad that I took a stance early on, that I wasn’t going to try to convince anyone else to believe like me. I had my “faith transition” (a term that Brian uses, and which I find very satisfying and soothing
On wading into the previously-forbidden actions with gusto… This is a tough one. I would suggest that you resist the urge to go do all the things you’ve kept yourself away from because of the church. You may eventually do them, but I wouldn’t do it on an impulse. Let your mind/spirit settle to where you are comfortable, and see where you land. I believe what you’ll find is that many things make sense and are worthwhile apart from the church dictating it as a commandment from God. If you drink coffee now, it doesn’t matter, but if you start smoking/drinking/getting tattooed, and having sex with your coworkers, you might find that where you land isn’t where you would have chosen to land. That’s the self-centered way to look at it (what’s best for you), but an equally, maybe more, important way to look at it is how this affects your family. I would venture to guess that your wife didn’t sign up to be married to someone that throws back a couple of beers every night after dinner. Is drinking evil? No. But if it will make your wife uncomfortable, then you shouldn’t do it out of love/respect/deference to her. One trick I use on myself is to remind myself that I’m the one who changed, not my wife, so the burden should be mine, not hers.
Thanks for your thoughts. All good advice, and I will heed it. I know it’s hard to tell from my posts, but I’m totally with you. Like I said, I’m sort of all over the place right now with my posts. I have absolutely zero plans to take up smoking, drinking, tattoos, sleeping around, or really any significant change in lifestyle. The coffee began as a result of very little sleep due to babies (actually our dog too!). It was just too much for me one day and I had to be able to focus while at work.
And I will fully respect all her beliefs. And I didn’t THINK I was keeping a ‘family secret’, just wanting to not frighten her and make her think I was suddenly anti-mormon or something like that. But when you put it THAT way….yeah, I should probably sit down with her. Thanks again!
welcome scooter. I have journeyed through a lot of different faith systems and approaches in my long-term disaffection, and come back to activity to a point because of a lot of reasons.
For me, it’s really important to define my own beliefs and not be controlled by the religious manipulation inherent in the church (and a lot of other churches, it turns out). Once I know who I am and who I think God is, I have become free to take those parts of the church I find to be edifying, and leave aside the rest. It’s what works for me, but probably doesn’t work for everyone.
I look forward to reading your stories.
cheers!
Welcome, scooter. Ironically, one of my sons called me last night and “interviewed” me for a Communication paper he was assigned in college. The questions focused on how I communicate with others, and my response to almost all of the questions was exactly the same.
I communicate openly and honestly with everyone, but I don’t share my feelings about things or in ways that I believe will do unnecessary harm to others. I believe completely that open and unfiltered communication, with no effort to discern what will cause harm unnecessarily, is selfish – and sometimes cruel.
Iow, share openly and honestly with your wife and others – but don’t feel like you have to share everything you think and feel to be “true to yourself” and to God. Being true to one’s self can include not sharing some things. In fact, I believe that is one sign of maturity – discernment and wisdom in its application. (Fwiw, I believe God is God to a degree for no other reason than that his patience allows him to avoid sharing everything with us when doing so would cause harm unnecessarily.)
scooter wrote:The problem I have with being telling her everything I’m feeling and thinking is that, as one can imagine, letting go of the idea that ‘all the doctrines are either true or false’ is really difficult when you really truly believe in (or even hope for) some of them. Eternal families is the biggest one. I think she feels that if she admits that not everything the church tells us is true, then eternal families may not be true as a result. Really hard to let go of. To be honest, I’m struggling with that a little bit myself.
Welcome Scoot,
I have found that I can continue to believe in the doctrines I like (such as eternal families) without the caveat (as long as you are worthy). Even if I am unsure how it will manifest in the next life, I am convinced that the love we have for each other in this life does and will matter. I imagine this is a common feeling among the human family.
I would also caution against changing most behaviors. I for one attend church with the family every week, hold a calling, and wear my “G’s” day and night, but when I was invited to a night out with “the guys” and the invite said BYOB – DW thought I might come home drunk. When I looked at her askew and said, “Sweetie, I don’t drink.” Her response was, “Well everything else seems to be changing with your religious beliefs. How am I to know what is next to go?” The point being that your spouse may fear you going completely off the rails, and I would advise not adding fuel to the fire of these fears.
I’m glad you found this place.
Roy
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