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Hey everyone, I’m new here but have lurked about for awhile I guess. I’m trying to make the LDS church work for me, but it’s a struggle. I have a strong belief in God and Jesus, but I just don’t seem to fit with the church. I feel God’s presence in my life everyday but don’t feel good at church at all. I have rarely felt at peace and mostly I feel shame and it’s turned into resentment and anger. When I joined the church I was about 20 and I knew it was a lifelong commitment. But I also felt trapped because I was taught that if I reject the church God would reject me. I prayed and never felt anything but just thought it was me. So I joined, served a mission and graduated from BYU. I met some amazing people and good friends, but I always felt a deep shame and worthlessness in the church. I know many people don’t feel this in church. I have a sister who’s a member and her husband and kids love the church and are happy there. Everyone has their own experiences and feelings. It’s only been the past few months that I’ve been able to be honest and say that the church has contributed to some of the negative feelings I have towards myself. For me the church is such a loud judge that often I can’t hear what God is saying to me. Always in my mind are these old white men telling me I need to be better and not mess up. I feel like I’ve woken up from a bad relationship and am wondering why in the world I stayed so long. This sounds so dramatic and I don’t mean it too. Just trying to work things out. Here are some things that I think put me over the edge the last few months because I finally see how ridiculous they are but I bought into them over the years. I’ve always felt that as a woman there was something wrong with me because in the temple it seems clear that we’re a step below the men. Also, I’m not married so that’s an added strike. I also read a talk by a general authority (don’t remember who) that people who come to earth with emotional problems did something in the past life to deserve it. This was especially hard because from a very young age I had depression and anxiety which I already was ashamed of and I had no way of knowing what I had done wrong. The horrible treatment of blacks by the church that has repercussions today.
So, as I looked at the mistakes made by these men I saw a double standard, at least for me. They are allowed to make any manner of mistakes and still be praised and followed, but I’m expected to live an almost perfect life and fit into a box at church and be happy about it. In Preach my Gospel we’re told to avoid all negative feelings and that anxiety shows a lack of faith. So I have to swallow anger, anxiety, fear and not be human while they can make huge mistakes. I’m sure they are good men. I just don’t understand. I like the lifestyle. I don’t want to go on a sinning binge at all. But I feel tremendous pressure to feel things that I just don’t feel and so now when I go to church I feel completely empty and sad. Anywho, that was long. Thanks for reading.
Welcome Haven. I found your post really touching and so much of it echoes feelings/issues that I have had.
Haven wrote:Everyone has their own experiences and feelings. It’s only been the past few months that I’ve been able to be honest and say that the church has contributed to some of the negative feelings I have towards myself. For me the church is such a loud judge that often I can’t hear what God is saying to me. Always in my mind are these old white men telling me I need to be better and not mess up.
Just recognizing that church has played a role in your feelings about yourself is a big step forward. Now you can examine what is causing you hurt and find a way to work towards healing. I feel like one consequence or side-effect of the church is that we become very judgmental, not only of others but of ourselves. We hear these talks about how we should be and we focus on all of our shortcomings. For me, I felt like all the messages from the GAs and the church in general were saying that I needed to be a better wife, I needed to have more children because not having more would be selfish, I need to be home with my children, I’m failing if I’m not having daily scripture study and prayer with my husband and my children and if we’re not having FHE every single week. The list goes on and on. That kind of thinking messed me up so bad and made the last 10years of my life much more difficult. I finally realized that all that pressure is total B.S. They don’t know me. They don’t know the specific needs of my family. I am a good mother and wife. I am a good person, God loves me the way I am. They’re trying to speak to a global church and I don’t always fit the mold that they’re talking to. Not every message is meant for me. I actually had to take steps to reduce the frequency of these messages. I don’t get the Ensign anymore. Last April I took a break from watching conference. Afterwards, I skimmed the titles and topics of the talks and read ones that I felt might benefit me. Maybe doing that would help you.
Haven wrote:I’ve always felt that as a woman there was something wrong with me because in the temple it seems clear that we’re a step below the men.
Yep. I have that issue too. I don’t go to the temple anymore. I might go back sometime, but I won’t do the endowment or sealings because they hurt too much.
Haven wrote:I also read a talk by a general authority (don’t remember who) that people who come to earth with emotional problems did something in the past life to deserve it.
Again, total B.S. The GAs have said some really insensitive things. I too struggle with depression and anxiety. Please don’t be ashamed. I felt that way and I took a long time before getting professional help. If you haven’t already, talk to your doctor or a therapist. There are medications and therapies that can help lift that burden.Haven wrote:So, as I looked at the mistakes made by these men I saw a double standard, at least for me. They are allowed to make any manner of mistakes and still be praised and followed, but I’m expected to live an almost perfect life and fit into a box at church and be happy about it.
Yeah, most members don’t see the shortcomings of the GAs, at least I never hear them talk about it. It probably has to do with all that “no evil speaking of the Lord’s anointed” thing. I also think we inflict this expectation to live a perfect life on ourselves. The atonement was put in place precisely because no one can possibly live a perfect life. God knows that and He has provided for that. My family and I are currently renegotiating our relationship with church and what we want our “box” to look like.
I don’t know if any of that helps. I hope so. I’m glad you found StayLDS. This place saved me. There are many here with great words of advice, acceptance, love and encouragement. I hope you stick around and post as much or as little as you like. (((((((Haven))))))) Glad you’re here.
Welcome. As I was reading your introduction, I thought immediately of how I view repentance and how we talk about that concept only partially in the Church. We focus so much on reactive, backward-looking repentance (which is important) that we tend to forget completely about proactive, foward-looking repentance.
Repentance means nothing more than “change” – and it deals only partially with “sin”. I believe the more powerful aspect of change is how we change “the natural (wo)man” in the absence of sin – how we work on “becoming” rather than just “fixing”.
If you want to read more about that, go to my personal blog. I have written 34 posts there that deal in some way with it. I am providing the links to two of them here:
“A Fresh View” of Repentance– ( http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/2008/01/rethinking-repentance.html More Thoughts on Repentance– ( http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/2008/06/more-thoughts-on-repentance.html Welcome Haven. I’m rather new here myself, but I think you’ll find many sympathetic and empathetic people here as I believe I have. Please understand you’re feelings are not unique, you are not alone. Before coming here I felt very alone. One thing that really stands out to me in what you said is the “everyone has their own experiences and feelings.” So many people in the church do not seem to understand that. I suppose it might have something to do with a belief that “everyone else here believes the same as I do, so they must feel the same.” Nothing could be farther from the truth, even down to whatever spiritual witnesses we have each had (or not had) – we each experience them differently. I have often related how I have felt a withdrawal of the Spirit, which, other than here, has always been met with disbelief. No one else knows how I feel, no one else has experienced what I have experienced, and the same is true for you and everyone else.
I hope you find the support you need here as I have.
One thing I thought about as I read your intro is the idea that we each have two voices that govern our actions: the nurturing parent and the critical parent. We tend to hear one more than the other. We also employ these styles as parents or leaders, and sometimes we adapt to compensate when there is no balance. For example, if your spouse is the critical parent, you may try to soothe the children, make peace, build them up, give them treats, be a friend, be slow to punish. When it comes to the internal voices, we tend to favor one or the other, but again the key is balance. People with a strong inner nurturing parent will cut themselves slack, tell themselves they deserve good things, and not take blame for what goes wrong. But those with a strong internal critical parent voice will denigrate themselves with perfectionism, tell themselves they don’t deserve good things, they need to be better or smarter, and blame themselves disproportionately. Sometimes we should take blame, learn from mistakes, try harder. But sometimes we deserve a break, some ice cream, a day off, a trip to the spa.
I would try to listen to your inner talk to restore some needed balance. When that critical parent gets time on the soap box, ask that nurturing parent to weigh in.
Haven — I loved your “loud judge” sentence above. It really captures what I feel too. My advice — get on your own clock. Embrace what you REALLY think about the church. I wouldn’t abandon it, as you mention there have been a lot of very good friends and experiences. At the same time, tune out the noise. And you’ve done a good job of identifying that noise.
Based on what you say, I would start by neutralizing the folk lore that the leaders are always inspired, never do wrong, and that one must hang on every word they say with lock-step obedience. Listen to them, but then put it through your own filter and act on what stays after your reasoned consideration. Make it your premise that you don’t know if what they say is inspired or not unless you go to the long process of fasting and prayer to get a confirmation — and who has time for that for every single leader or statement a leader makes? With this premise, I simply listen to them as men and then make up my own mind.
Also, the idea that people with emotional problems did something in the pre-mortal life is a bastardized version of the Just World Hypothesis. That hypothesis says that things we suffer in this life end up attracting some form of compensation in the next. Spencer Kimball made this comment in a talk called Death: Trajedy or Destiny? or similar (but didn’t refer to teh Just World Hypothesis, which is part of psychological theory). But the idea that we are punished in this life for things we did in the premortal life (which, by the way, we can’t even remember) is not healthy to believe. And guess what, feeling anxious is part of life as you never know what is on the horizon for you.
I’m glad your bull meter has gone off. Because now you are motivated to adopt a new view of the world that elevates your own unique, and intimate knowledge of yourself to the status formerly held by the church. Also, if church bothers you, don’t be afraid to diversify your circle of friends. It doesn’t have to be about the church all the time. There are circles of friends out there who have good values that you can find — they are in groups associated with your hobbies, service organizations, school organizations, etcetera. You can belong there too, while still maintaining the good in the LDS Church, but at a less intensive level. And remember, the church only has what you give them, and our own Articles of Faith indicate we worship God according to the dictate or our own conscience. That conscience should be the loud judge, not the church, which only provides input for your consideration.
Haven, thank you for your introduction. I can relate on so many levels. SilentDawning, loved your response. :clap: It is so heartwarming to jump on here and find others who are feeling and experiencing things similar to me. I feel I am among friends.
🙂 Welcome Haven, hawkgrrrl wrote:One thing I thought about as I read your intro is the idea that we each have two voices that govern our actions: the nurturing parent and the critical parent. We tend to hear one more than the other. We also employ these styles as parents or leaders, and sometimes we adapt to compensate when there is no balance. For example, if your spouse is the critical parent, you may try to soothe the children, make peace, build them up, give them treats, be a friend, be slow to punish.
When it comes to the internal voices, we tend to favor one or the other, but again the key is balance. People with a strong inner nurturing parent will cut themselves slack, tell themselves they deserve good things, and not take blame for what goes wrong. But those with a strong internal critical parent voice will denigrate themselves with perfectionism, tell themselves they don’t deserve good things, they need to be better or smarter, and blame themselves disproportionately. Sometimes we should take blame, learn from mistakes, try harder. But sometimes we deserve a break, some ice cream, a day off, a trip to the spa.
I am the nurturing parent and DW the critical parent. I had a permissive upbringing and DW the authoritarian. DW sees me cut myself some slack and describes it as justification. I’m just not into feeling bad for my imperfections. If I had a choice between striving for perfection and hating myself for coming up short or wallowing in my limitations and liking myself – I would choose the later. I believe that DW’s critical nature will strain her relationship with DD just as her own relationship with her mother is strained.
Haven wrote:I also read a talk by a general authority (don’t remember who) that people who come to earth with emotional problems did something in the past life to deserve it. This was especially hard because from a very young age I had depression and anxiety which I already was ashamed of and I had no way of knowing what I had done wrong.
I would be interested in knowing who said that. Sure sounds like a bonehead thing to say. SD is right about the Just World Hypothesis. It doesn’t even need to be necessarily religious just that doing good will attract good things to you… like karma. Anyway, this might prove true for many people but not for all. When disaster strikes some sacrifice their sense of worthiness to maintain the Just World Hypothesis. “I must have done something reckless or wrong or negligent to bring this upon me.”
I too have been there. Since my own personal disaster – I have had anxiety. The idea that everything I love in this life could be taken from me in an instant is terrifying.
Haven wrote:So I joined, served a mission and graduated from BYU. I met some amazing people and good friends, but I always felt a deep shame and worthlessness in the church. I know many people don’t feel this in church. I have a sister who’s a member and her husband and kids love the church and are happy there. Everyone has their own experiences and feelings. It’s only been the past few months that I’ve been able to be honest and say that the church has contributed to some of the negative feelings I have towards myself.
The Just World Hypothesis is not all bad. When a young person grows up in an ideal family and is loved and nurtured – the Just World Hypothesis naturally kicks in with the idea that life is good and just. You will be rewarded and
protectedin your good decisions. You are safe. Sounds pretty good, right? Some people can live long and fruitful lives under this theory. More power to them. Some people can’t and would do well to find something different that speaks to them and their individual life experiences. I look forward to hearing more from you. I believe that is through sharing and accepting various experiences that we can grow.
Thank you so much for responding and sharing words of wisdom with me. I hope to write more this weekend when I have more time. Haven, welcome. So many others have already given good advice. Hopefully, like hope, you feel you are among friends that understand. Just one quick suggestion…I found many Buddhist teachings and books very helpful. Many focus on the NOW. Don’t get wrapped up in the past and what was done or mistakes made, don’t fear the future of not living up to who you think the church says you should be…but accept you are living life now as you are. If God wanted me better, He should have made me better…but He’s stuck with me who I am today. With that, I can point myself in the direction I want to go, and not run faster than I have strength.
You seem to have tried so hard to make church work for you the way you think it should, but maybe now it is time to accept it for what it is, and live your life how you want, not with should haves, could haves, or would haves.
I have found the church can be what I need it to be for me in my situation. Others may not understand it, but I need it to fit into my life to make it useful, not try to make my life look like others and then feel like something is wrong with me when it doesn’t fit neatly.
Haven wrote:I feel like I’ve woken up from a bad relationship and am wondering why in the world I stayed so long. This sounds so dramatic and I don’t mean it too. Just trying to work things out. Here are some things that I think put me over the edge the last few months because I finally see how ridiculous they are but I bought into them over the years.
But you’ve woken up and found yourself here! It was such a breath of fresh air for me. I’ve been able to sort out a little better what’s me, what’s the church and what’s God. Good luck.
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