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Do HCs and HPs constantly criticise the EC for lack of participation in service in your respective wards? I go when I can, but EC members are typically those with young kids and over stressed wives that still want their husbands home. Moms with young kids work hard and need help at night and on weekends (IE husbands home). Makes it very hard to simply leave the family for an evening to do service to another family all of the time. The culture of all of my wards has been this way. The HPs making jokes about the Elders becuase they are not always at moves and etc… Bad cultural practice. Usually, but not always, HPs are retired or have grown up kids or their wives want their space. Not the case for most Elders, it is the opposite. So wouldn’t you expect the HPs to be at more service activities and for the Elders not to be put down about it?
I see the opposite. 🙂 The EQ always making fun of the HP, we have our opening exercises and then the HPs file off to “nap time.” I don’t have the problem anymore because now I’m in a smaller unit so the elders and high priests are combined.
You’re right though. I think sometimes the older guys forget what it was like… and I vow not to forget but a part of me tells me that forgetting is inevitable. I mean, look at all the evidence.
Like that one older guy that tries to recap 180 years worth of church history during the closing prayer… and meanwhile me and every other parent are placing our children in inventive wrestling holds to prevent them from scattering to the four corners of the earth during the prayer. Yeah, never forget.
I haven’t seen it in the wards where I’ve lived. The High Priests usually make fun of themselves. I was ordained a HP at 34, these things tend to happen younger in small wards outside the Mormon Corridor. And I wasn’t the youngest HP, nor the oldest of course. At that time most in my ward (and stake) were under 45. So, we were often similar in age to elders and often had young families ourselves. My take on service projects hasn’t changed in my years in the church – I will go if I don’t have something else more pressing and if it doesn’t significantly impact time with my own family or time I should be spending doing things at my own house (in other words, doing someone else’s work is not an excuse for not taking care of my own home and family). I don’t recall anyone ever in my ward – ever – pointing out that someone wasn’t there helping, elder or HP. I never recall any criticism of anyone, elder of HP. Perhaps it’s a cultural thing – if so, I’m glad I have my culture and not yours. I still remember my first week as an Elder, decades ago. In that ward, the MP met together for a few minutes before separating, unlike the custom today where opening exercises include YM. A guy got up to make an announcement and said, “I have an announcement for just the Elders Quorum, so I will talk softly and that way only the elders will be able to hear.” Other than that, I haven’t ever seen the EQ or the HPG make fun of the other. I also have seen expressly little joking about the women. I remember my wife saying one time that in her RS class, sometimes the women could get complaining about the men. I responded with, “that’s weird because in the Elders Quorum, they hardly ever mention the women, and if they do, it is always positively.” Basically, my Church experience has been that each group worries about itself and doesn’t have much or anything to say about anyone else. Obviously, each congregation will be different because of the individuals involved and the customs of the area.
I don’t like visiting my in-laws’ ward in Utah, because they seem to have an expectation and desire for in-fun ribbing of each other (no specific group against any other specific group)… they will often stand for an announcement or whatever, and then call out someone in the meeting and say something like, “I’m sure Brother Jones won’t make it, but we are doing a service project…” That kind of banter just isn’t my style. I don’t think it is very becoming of people who profess to be brothers and sisters in the family of Christ. But, my wards have all been wonderful in that regard.
I don’t see it very much either. The only time I saw a bit of besmirching was when the church made HP’s responsible for prospective elders, presumably because elders have such a hard time doing home teaching. But even that wasn’t making fun, it was simply recognizing the tendency for HP to be more committed in than Elders in their home teaching, presumably to fewer family commitments. Hey, while we’re on the topic, why do the high priests and elders meet separately? Is there a real reason, or just tradition? I don’t know…all I can do is speculate… a) To give another reason to progress in the church. It is SO monotonous, the idea of becoming HP might be a game changer for some.
b) They have different phases of life and maturity levels
Otherwise, I have no good reason for it…
journeygirl wrote:Hey, while we’re on the topic, why do the high priests and elders meet separately? Is there a real reason, or just tradition?
I’m sure it is partly tradition, and in smaller wards and branches all MP meet together. They are separate organizations, though, and while they have the same lesson the HP group might take a different tact to it just like the RS does. Three of the same lesson that might not match each other at all because the needs, interests, and instructors of each group are different. I mentioned in the earlier post how I was ordained a HP at 34. That was 20 years ago and our ward has matured – literally. Our once booming primary is now very small, and all of us young fathers who were once in HPG with just a couple old geezers now have children in college and even grandchildren – and a couple of us have become old geezers. Our perspectives are quite different than those in the EQ with young children. Even my memory is going, because I actually just realized I was really 32, not 34.
journeygirl wrote:Hey, while we’re on the topic, why do the high priests and elders meet separately? Is there a real reason, or just tradition?
It’s a manifestation of the complex hierarchy of the priesthood. Elders Quorum is different from High Priest Quorum. The EQ operates at the ward level, under the direction of the Stake President. The EQuorums in each ward have their own EQPresidents, called by the Stake President. The HPQ operates at the stake level. In fact, there is only one HPQuorum per stake, divided by wards into “groups”. The Stake President is the HPQuorum President.That’s the archaic explanation. Today, it’s grown into a division that simply exists with not much rationale. Personally, I like the division and have often asked myself the inverse of your question: Why do all ages of women meet together?
On Own Now wrote:Why do all ages of women meet together?
It’s a really good question. Very often,
very oftenI hear about how young women entering relief society don’t feel as thought they fit in when they first get there. Young women go through 6 years of being in classes made up of only their peers. They turn 18 and suddenly they find themselves in a class full of “old women.” It can be a bit disheartening.
I do love the concept of the YSA wards. They come to the rescue on that front but do not exist in all places.
DarkJedi wrote:I was ordained a HP at 34, these things tend to happen younger in small wards outside the Mormon Corridor. And I wasn’t the youngest HP, nor the oldest of course. At that time most in my ward (and stake) were under 45. So, we were often similar in age to elders and often had young families ourselves. My take on service projects hasn’t changed in my years in the church – I will go if I don’t have something else more pressing and if it doesn’t significantly impact time with my own family or time I should be spending doing things at my own house (in other words, doing someone else’s work is not an excuse for not taking care of my own home and family). I don’t recall anyone ever in my ward – ever – pointing out that someone wasn’t there helping, elder or HP. I never recall any criticism of anyone, elder of HP. Perhaps it’s a cultural thing – if so, I’m glad I have my culture and not yours.
My wife attended a small branch in upstate New York, in the mid 80s to mid 90s, herself and she has told me it is different than the chruch in the west also. So yeah, it is a cultural thing for sure.
Actually in my new ward, I have been attending the last little while, seems totally different. I haven’t noticied this at all. However my first two wards as an Elder, for more than 15 years, I noticed this quite a bit. It was dissappointing, even though at the time I was mostly young and without a wife and kids, but even at the time it seemed logical to me that men who had less on their plate at home could come out more often.
In my last ward it was the EQP who was picking on the EQ itself. He was also older and did not have small kids at home, so comments are spot on, we must tend to forget the difficulty the younger people have at home with small kids and a wife who needs a break. I stopped attended EQ in that ward after his tirade, so did a couple of others in a similar situation to mine. Still liked the EQP personally, but did not care to attend EQ with him.
I am glad to hear that my experience is unique and not widespread.
:thumbup: I feared that it was.Utah I bet can be even more difficult. I don’t think I would make it there. I have visited enough to know that.
🙂 journeygirl wrote:Hey, while we’re on the topic, why do the high priests and elders meet separately? Is there a real reason, or just tradition?
I think in the old days it was for married men with children, and the local leaders to meet together.
That and smoking pot.
I think separating HPG and EQ is a problem. It creates a hierarchy and hierarchy begets pride. Those who don’t “advance” by their 40s feel like failures, and those who advance early sometimes are revered as super special. It’s just not right. I don’t love the lumping together of all women in RS, but I think it’s better than artificially creating advancement. hawkgrrrl wrote:Those who don’t “advance” by their 40s feel like failures, and those who advance early sometimes are revered as super special.
You have a point, I’ve certainly felt that way about HPs in the past.
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