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I was raised LDS, my parents were both inactive (dad is a self proclaimed atheist, mom goes when she is visiting family in salt lake) I always went to church with my Aunt, was babtized when I was 8, did the young women thing, camps, activities and whatnot. I moved to Houston from Salt Lake when I was 15, and quickly fell away. And I stayed away for about 15 years. I did belive but as a teenager and a 20 something, I found the actual act of going to church was cumbersome. I started smoking (ick) and had two failed marriages by the time I was 26.
I met my DH, in 2006 and moved to Washington to be with him. I am guessing someone in my family contacted the ward and transfer my membership to here.. Because about a year ago two missionaries knocked on my door and asked for me by name.
Long story short, my daughter and I went back DH is a Non-LDS, but he supports me as best he can…he went to my daughters baptism and will talk with the elders and others and go to activites with us but shows NO interst in joining.. that is his choice.
Now my issue is that my grandmother (almost 90) said she would love to see me go through the temple before she dies… some days I really want to. BUt the problem is that DH is the sole income here and WONT pay tithing for me. So I really cant pay tithing.. does anyone know of issues with that?
I had not felt the spirit in so long. I was given a blessing before I had surgery in January.. It was incredible.. I dunno. I dearly want to be active again. I dont really have any doubts but just have a hard time “fitting in” …
Sorry in advance if this made absolutely no sense
Hi PT, your story or posting made a whole lot of sense. just follow your heart.
Mike
Princess Tiefling wrote:Now my issue is that my grandmother (almost 90) said she would love to see me go through the temple before she dies… some days I really want to. BUt the problem is that DH is the sole income here and WONT pay tithing for me. So I really cant pay tithing.. does anyone know of issues with that?
Welcome Princess,
I think the decision to go through the temple is an important and many faceted one. I have living grandparents and I know that I make visiting them and creating memories with them a priority.
The tithing part is easy because if you don’t make any money, 10% of $0 = $0. Although different bishops may interpret tithing compliance each slightly differently, I would be quite surprised to find one that required your non-LDS husband to pay tithing before you could enter the temple.
But you should also consider other issues. I personally am thinking of how your husband may react to your decision to wear garments for the rest of your life, but I’m sure that there are other considerations as well.
In short, If you decide to go to the temple – I hope it will be because it is something that you want and that it will be important to you. If it were important to you for the sole reason that you want to have this memory with your grandmother, that could be enough reason – but it should be important to
you. Roy- Thank you for reminding me that it should be for *me* I think that is what is keeping me from going to the Bishop at this point. DH is supportive even of the garments.. I explained it to him as best I could to my knowledge. He knows my faith is important to me – as his.
I dunno, I am kinda at a crossroads .. BUT more for me to think on
I would also consider whether you are committed to some of the more unobvious expectations which come from going to the temple. I have found Bishops tend to expect temple recommend holders to give more in terms of home and visiting teaching. The number of times I’ve had them come to me and say “so and so just went to the temple, so you should talk to him/her about a home/visiting teaching assignment”. There may be expectations, or at least, invitations to work at the temple as a worker there, depending on the needs of the area in which you live. And, tithing is easy for now. But as you get income throughout your life, or eventually take a job, you will have to pay the 10% to maintain your temple recommend. Roy makes a good point about garments, and your husband’s reaction.
I agree with Roy — do it for yourself and not your grandmother. And if you decide to do it, do it with the intention for maintaining it for the long term, since that’s what you’re implicitly agreeing to.
Princess Tiefling wrote:I dont really have any doubts but just have a hard time “fitting in” …
Sorry in advance if this made absolutely no sense
Well, you fit in just fine here with the rest of us that don’t make any sense!
I truly believe there is a place for you in mormonism. It is also likely that someone you are close to (in your ward or your area) feels the same way, and feels they are on the outskirts…not fitting in with the mainstream. In fact, there are likely more people than you realize that feel that way in your very ward. Perhaps there is an opportunity for you to reach someone else in a way that others can’t… maybe a youth that needs someone with life experience to guide them or just care about them. Maybe another member that has had different circumstances, but has similar feelings.
One of the beauties of the church is it brings us together geographically and randomly…yet we often find opportunities to lose ourselves by serving others, and it doing so…find ourselves. And also find that we are not as different as we think, sometimes.
You sound like you have a wonderfully supportive spouse. Be grateful for that.
Welcome to the forum. I look forward to learning from your posts.
Welcome. Great advice so far. I also echo the idea that 10% x $0 income = $0. So you could quite honestly and literally say you are a full tithe payer. I know there are bishops who have no problem with this, the ones that really “get it” and want people to go to the temple for that experience.
I would NOT recommend asking the Bishop for permission for this, if it were me. I would just answer “Yes.” (and nothing else) when asked if I was a full tithe payer in the temple recommend interview. They are not supposed to ask for details or interrogate you.
If that seems too extreme a position, perhaps your husband would agree to let you donate some small amount of money to the Church as tithing — maybe the amount you might pay to belong to a social club or a gym membership (something like that). In my marriage, I have been the sole breadwinner, but we consider it all our money in common. We setup a budget for things, and there’s usually something for entertainment, miscellaneous spending, or stuff like that. Your husband sounds like a reasonable guy. Atheists are often the most fair of folks since they have to take responsibility for making decisions about their own personal moral code of ethics. You could argue it’s fair, perhaps, to give at least some small amount to the Church if you are attending and benefiting from their programs.
It’s just a thought. Either way, I personally think you are fine on the tithing issue.
The temple is a whole new level of commitment though. Like others said, you should go because you want to. I would also HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend that you take responsibility for preparation. The Church locally at the stake and ward level teaches a lame and impossibly devoid of useful information series they call a “temple prep” class. Find someone who will talk about the commitments that are made. Also have them talk to you about the Initiatory (Washing and Anointing) and the Endowment. Have them explain the basics of what goes on, describe the clothing, describe the flow of the ceremony, etc. The only thing people really commit to not discuss is a tiny part of it all called the “signs and tokens,” which are a few words and hand gestures during the Endowment.
I personally enjoy and appreciate the symbolism of the temple, but it is FAR outside what most of us are used to culturally and religiously, even as life-long members of the Church. It’s nothing freaky or weird, just different, from a bygone era. Everyone at Church is far too hush-hush about it, feeling like they can’t tell people what they are about to experience. Honestly, I think most people treat it that way because they don’t understand the temple, and are embarrassed on some level (because they don’t understand it).
10% of nothing is nothing. Let me repeat that, mathematically:
0 x .10 = 0
So,
someone who has no income and pays no tithing is a full tithe payer.Period. End of discussion. Fat lady has sung. Seriously, if you have no income, you can answer YES to the tithing question without hesitation. You are a full tithe payer. You don’t need to explain anything, but if you are questioned, simply say that 10% of nothing is nothing – so you are a full tithe payer.
If your Bishop doesn’t accept that, talk with your Stake President. If your SP doesn’t accept that, send a letter directly to the Area Authority. If that doesn’t work, write a letter to Pres. Monson.
Just do so, at each level, humbly and in a “beseeching” manner – as in, “I really want to attend the temple and am a full tithe payer – but I am not being allowed to attend simply because I have no income. I respect, sustain and support Church leadership, but, in this case, I should be able to attend the temple. Please explain to my local leaders that somone who doesn’t pay tithing because she has no income is a full tithe payer, since 10% of nothing is nothing.”
If you are not comfortable doing that, let me know. I would be happy to get a statement to that effect from someone at a high enough level to convince local leaders that you are a full tithe payer.
Ray, do you know if the handbook specifically states expectations of tithing on non-LDS spouses? I’m fairly certain that is never expected or asked for of any household. Any bishop expecting a member to pay tithing for the non-LDS spouse is not in compliance with church policy. There is no expectation of tithing from non-members of any kind. Holding one person responsible for the actions of another person in this regard is against the teachings of the Church – even if the spouse is a member. Iow, if a spouse has no income and the other spouse does, what I said in my last comment applies even if the spouse with an income who is not paying tithing is LDS. As a similar example, if one spouse is disfellowshiped or excommunicated, the other spouse can remain a fully active member – and even attend the temple. Things like this are supposed to be evaluated individually.
The particular example of a non-tithe-paying member spouse is not understood by some members and local leaders, but if my wife wasn’t working and I didn’t pay tithing, she should not be kept from the temple for my non-payment. Period. That same fat lady has sung again. I believe most members and leaders would agree with me if I had a chance to talk with them about it – and I am certain nothing would be said to me by 99% of the local leadership if I discussed it in a Stake Leadership Meeting. It’s getting them to think about it that is the issue in most cases – and having it presented by someone they view as an “authority” of some kind, unfortunately.
Sorry It has taken me a day or so to get back to the forum I wanted to talk to the Bishop about the whole tithing thing this Sunday.. But we are going out of town I feel super guilty because DD WAS supposed to give a talk in primary about Modesty and we had to tell them she cant!
I Got a phone call from the ward missionary leader saying that he and the Missiorays will be stopping by sometime and wanted to set up and appointment. I guess the prayer that I needed someone to talk to was answered!
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