Homosexuality – Gay Marriage

[Anonymous]

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Part of it is how we seem to grade and order sins into magnitudes and severity in the Church. We are *ALL* sinners who fall short, from TSM all the way down to the most inactive member. Which is the worse sinner? Does it even matter in the eyes of God that we attempt to grade them? God has total, all-encompassing love and acceptance for us just as we are. God also urges us to keep walking forward, and to discover our personal divinity, while shedding the things that hold us back, whatever those things may be.

Wow, this is something I’ve come to realize quite recently, but was not able to put into words. Thanks for expressing it so accurately. This whole gradation of sin concept is highly problematic for me, and as I think about it, probably stems from our doctrine of a graduated salvation. This, in turn, perpetuates what I believe are viciously false teachings re: salvation by works. In other words, in a graduated salvation model, you are rewarded based upon the works you have performed: some people are extra good (celestial); others are middle of the road (terrestrial); others are pretty bad (telestial); and still others are truly awful (outer darkness).

Well, I’ll tell you what. I know I’m a sinner, and I sure as hell don’t want to get what I deserve. 😈 And I’m pretty sure if they’re honest about it, no one else does either. That’s why we need the grace of Christ so very desperately. (Sorry for the little swear. If it’s not okay, please let me know and I will not do it again.) Perhaps without these rigidly defined categories of salvation we could be, as Valoel puts it, more “comfortable” with imperfection…more open about the fact that we ALL need Jesus…and by extension, more understanding and loving to each other. Including, of course, our gay brothers and sisters.

(I also feel compelled to mention that I’m open to the idea that the *doctrine* of a “graduated” salvation doesn’t need to change, but more what we interpret the *implications* of the doctrine to be [i.e. NOT works and merit-based rewards].)

In any event: Ray, I would be very, very interested in hearing more about your vision of how gay members could/should be integrated into the Church. I tend to agree with you. But are you saying you think our fundamental definition of the law of chastity needs changing (i.e. homosexuality is NOT a sin?)…or would your take be more along the lines of what Valoel has said, in that we should do away with making it out to be the big, bad, “evil” monster sin it’s become, while still asserting it’s wrong and/or not ideal?

[Anonymous]

Old-Timer wrote:

I’ve said everywhere that I would support comprehensive civil unions (with exactly equal civil rights) regardless of sexual orientation, with “marriage” reserved as a religious word for churches to confer as they desire. If some churches want to perform gay marriages, so be it; if others don’t, so be it. I see that as the only option that provides equal protection under the law, while still allowing religions to “sanctify” marriage. I see this generally in Europe, with their implementation of civil unions.

I don’t have the real history behind the word “marriage,” but I did go to dictionary.com and look it up. It said:

Quote:

the social institution under which a man and woman establish their decision to live as husband and wife by legal commitments, religious ceremonies, etc.

It seems to be a social institution which may have either a legal or religious underpinning. This particular definition holds the man/woman proposition, but it seems to me that it should represent a legal union between consenting adults.

I agree with the other comments that several years down the road the church members will regret the position that the church took in California. It will likely fall the same as interracial marriage, civil rights, racial segregation, slavery, the definition of the roles of a family patriarch, etc. To determine whether or not Prop 8 is worthy, all I need to do is take a look at the Golden Rule. Would I like if if someone prevented me from a formal union and all of the attendant legal rights and obligations, with my spouse. My kids see it pretty clearly. The church is wrong. They have gay friends and know their friends to be kind, honest, honorable people, oft times moreso than their church going LDS acquaintences.

[Author]

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