Honest faith vs. just being nice

[Anonymous]

All of the following thoughts are so important and wonderful. This is how I would like to live, learning by symbolism but living and loving for life.

hawkgrrrl wrote:

The myth shifts to make things more personal (based on a real relationship with real people) and to also light the path for our own responsibility toward our children in the future. The truth transcends the myth by replacing the magical elements with charitable ones and with personal growth.

Tom Haws wrote:

For me, though the reality of Heaven and the Highest is larger than physical life, it really is important to look at life with less magical explanations and more symbolism and personal responsibility.

Valoel wrote:

I have priesthood power/authority to bless people because I believe it and they believe it. It’s all very real on the spiritual level. It may or may not be as real on the tangible/intellectual level.

Heber13 wrote:

I guess I am still a little uncomfortable, feeling like I still believe God exists and periodically “enlightens” a prophet to restore truth so we can start a church to teach true Christ teachings…but on a daily basis, how much of it is really haunted hauses and scary snakes that we seek comfort from, when really we need to just look at real life with less paranormal explanations and more symbolism for meaning and direction.

btw, you all just did it again. This insight has inspired me more than…. oh, I’m not gonna say it. 😳

[Anonymous]

hawkgrrrl, Valoel, and Heber, very well said, I couldn’t agree more. Let me add another thought to this.

I often wonder why it is we are so anxious to examine the paranormal, and supernatural. Why are we so quick to assign unknown events to God, or Satan, or Demons, etc.? Has anyone read one of those giant books about the Cosmos? I just read one, and you know what? I was amazed!! So much that I didn’t know we knew about things we can’t even test. There is so so much in the scientific, psychological, economic, etc. parts of our world and so many people have no clue about it! Who here understands quantum mechanics, or nuclear physics? Who understands the details about having mapped out the genomes of some basic creatures? (not saying I do because I don’t either) There is so much to be amazed at, and wonder at that we have gleaned from simply observing our world, without any need to assign it to supernatural powers. Did you know that some salamanders can re-grow amputated limbs? How many times has God done that for a human? I’m not trying to disparage religion, or God, or undermine the importance of theology. But I think it sad that so many people watch stories about ghost hunting, or haunted houses on TV, but go ahead and try to find a good show about science!

I guess what I’m saying is that we are very preoccupied with religion, God, and the supernatural, and ignore the fantastic wonders that have been gleaned by observing our own backyard (metaphorically obviously)!

[Anonymous]

jmb275 wrote:

I often wonder why it is we are so anxious to examine the paranormal, and supernatural. Why are we so quick to assign unknown events to God, or Satan, or Demons, etc.?

[snip]

I guess what I’m saying is that we are very preoccupied with religion, God, and the supernatural, and ignore the fantastic wonders that have been gleaned by observing our own backyard (metaphorically obviously)!

[Anonymous]

Tom Haws wrote:

It’s about much more than a search for transcendence. It’s a search for meaning. Good religion supplies accurate and durable meaning that honors the scientific method

I think you are exactly right, Tom – it becomes a matter of “where did I come from”, “Why am I here”, “Where am I going”.

So to bring this around to my original question (to check that we’ve answered my question), taking all your comments, I’d summarize this way:

– There is really more going on around us than we know (Tom Haws)

– Science can’t explain everything (jmb275)

– The myth transcends the stories or understandings we place of things like hauntings in our home, so the paranormal explanations can suffice at a certain level of understanding and the symbolic meaning within those explanations can be understood at much higher levels (Hawkgrrrl)

– The Priesthood is a power that we can bless the lives of others to comfort them and provide peace (Valoel)

– The blessing can be for whatever need the individual has, depending on their view of the spiritual world around them.

Based on this – as the priesthood holder, I should be prepared to provide a blessing based on faith that God knows their needs, even if I don’t understand it. I should also have faith to be moved by the Spirit on how to phrase things (Ray) so I am honest in heart that I too believe the blessing will provide them with the peace they are seeking by asking in faith for me to give it.

…and of course, this discussion has been more enlightening than 10yrs of EQ lessons (swimordie)

Can I keep this discussion going?

What situations if someone asked you to pray for or give a blessing for, you would have to tell them that isn’t appropriate to ask the Lord?

Quote:

the Lord has said, “Trifle not with these things; do not ask for that which you ought not.” (D&C 8:10.)

[Anonymous]

Heber, I want my children to know that I am always here for them, but I don’t want them to always be here with me. I want them to feel comfortable asking me anything, but I don’t want them to ask me everything. I want to be a resource for them, but I don’t want to be the source for them.

Eventually, I want them to be agents unto themselves – and to become for their children what I was for them. I want them to be part of an eternal round.

[Anonymous]

I saw a fascinating movie this week called “Moon”. I don’t know if this is a forum to discuss it but in reading your “wrap up”, heber, I couldn’t help but think of it. It tackles in a most interesting way some very existential issues and, of course, the idea of meaning.

Someone else even said it and you used it in your “wrap up”, that religion is a way for people to engage meaning. And, of course, the core concept of your question, at least to me, is the idea of meaning.

So, I think this made sound, oh so existential, but if it’s worth asking for (blessing, etc.) to the individual, it has meaning. By assigning meaning, you’re inherently giving the concept a value equal to the individuals belief in God. It follows, in my mind, that the very fact that an individual would think of taking something to God, whether in question or blessing, by consequence it is not only appropriate but should be encouraged (based on the concept of “exercising faith”).

I totally get what Ray was saying and I believe intensely in the concept of agency, but can we really bug God with all this frivolous asking? I think if we’re all trying to discover our own meaning, then the way we go about that should not necessarily be “guided” or “mentored’ into some other person’s way or groups way or religions way or whatever.

In the movie, there was a computer that was on the “space station” with the main character and he was there to help. No matter what. Because it seemed emotionless, (though there was a funny trick that was used to make him have emotions, yes, emoticons) anything the character asked for was given as much weight as anything else. A computer doesn’t judge the weight of the matter, it just responds. It’s sole purpose was to “serve” the main character.

Of course, we all assign a different meaning to God and God’s role in our individual lives, so our response to another’s request to us to give a blessing or prayer may actually shift the meaning of God to that person, for better or worse.

[Anonymous]

Heber13 wrote:

What situations if someone asked you to pray for or give a blessing for, you would have to tell them that isn’t appropriate to ask the Lord?

Three quick things come to mind:

1. Asking for a blessing that did not relate to the person directly. There a couple types of blessings — personal ones, and those that dedicate a location. Personal blessings are for healing and spiritual guidance. I would not offer a blessing if it was really directed at another person. The first thing that comes to mind would be something like a person asking to be blessed so that a girl they like will fall in love with them and marry them. That isn’t a blessing for the person requesting the service. I guess another would be blessing a surgeon at the request of a patient? It would be ok if the surgeon wanted a blessing for them self, so they could do a good job.

As for locations, I can only think of blessing a home or a grave site. A home is the only one we do without setting up an arrangement with the BP. So I would probably not bless offices, factories, crops, or other non-home locations. You can always pray for things and not make it a formal “priesthood blessing.”

2. Asking for a blessing with a specific outcome.

I don’t think that is how it works. “Thy will be done” is a very important concept to me. I have personally run into trouble with this once or twice in the past and it was hard on me, causing cognitive dissonance. I used to think we might be able to control things if only we had enough faith…

3. Asking me to bless them with guidance in regards to something I believed was immoral, obviously. I would not give someone a blessing so they could have guidance on how to murder someone and get away with it.

[Anonymous]

Valoel wrote:

I don’t think that is how it works. “Thy will be done” is a very important concept to me. I have personally run into trouble with this once or twice in the past and it was hard on me, causing cognitive dissonance. I used to think we might be able to control things if only we had enough faith…

I think this is a great concept, although I think I may see it different than many. To me, this has less to do with God and allowing for His will than it does admitting that we can’t control things. It is pure, simple, honest to goodness uncertainty. It says, “look, I don’t know what’s going to happen, but whatever happens, I hope we will be able to make it through it.” I find this much more honest, and appealing than attempts to control, and subsequent interpretation when things don’t go as dictated.

[Anonymous]

jmb275 wrote:

Valoel wrote:

I don’t think that is how it works. “Thy will be done” is a very important concept to me. I have personally run into trouble with this once or twice in the past and it was hard on me, causing cognitive dissonance. I used to think we might be able to control things if only we had enough faith…

I think this is a great concept, although I think I may see it different than many. To me, this has less to do with God and allowing for His will than it does admitting that we can’t control things. It is pure, simple, honest to goodness uncertainty. It says, “look, I don’t know what’s going to happen, but whatever happens, I hope we will be able to make it through it.” I find this much more honest, and appealing than attempts to control, and subsequent interpretation when things don’t go as dictated.

I agree, jmb275 and Valoel about God’s will. First of all, blessings are based on faith, and faith is based on seeking God’s will that will bless our lives, and accepting God’s will. I think there is a river of truth flowing to God and we need to just find ways to align our lives with the water’s current (or call it a straight and narrow path with an iron rod…whatever the analogy), not try to redirect the river to where we want to go. It is us that must move and find the “flow”. This is why being with nature has been so enlightening to me more and more lately.

I think there are blessings that I would decline to offer if I didn’t feel it was “right” to do so. Certainly I could decline without being rude to the person who really was honestly hoping for it. Blessing a friend’s cat who got hit by a car would be one, even though on my mission I remember long priesthood classes discussing this and how pioneers used to bless cattle. Pioneers may have had their reasons and their faith, but for me…for a cat, I still would not do it. I would probably instead offer to bless the cat owner a blessing of comfort for their hard situation that means so much to them personally. If someone else jumped in to offer the blessing…I wouldn’t report them to the “Blessing Police” – I would simply keep my thoughts to myself, and maybe help find a vet.

[Anonymous]

Just read the reply by JBM275, quote…Now to answer your question. I do the same thing when I give a priesthood blessing for healing. I don’t think it likely that my giving a blessing will actually heal anyone (incidentally, I would love to see a controlled scientific study done in this regard). But I don’t give the blessing with that intent. I give the blessing because it helps to comfort the individual. If any healing occurs as a result of the blessing, I suspect it would be due to the psychological, and physical affects of receiving this comfort, and whatnot. Should I feel it is ethically wrong for me to do such a thing? I don’t think so. We do things to help other people. If it helps people, that is worth something.

Since I am inactive the above quote made me think there are as many perceptions of what happens when someone gives a blessing as there are people. When I become active and begin giving blessings, I would like to think there would be some hope of blessings realized because the priesthood has the ability to bring about such blessings. The above quote made me wonder if JMB beleives the priesthood has any power to bless, or just where he is at in his mind when giving blessings. As I said, no two people are at the same level on any subject.

[Anonymous]

jeriboy wrote:

The above quote made me wonder if JMB beleives the priesthood has any power to bless, or just where he is at in his mind when giving blessings. As I said, no two people are at the same level on any subject.

I think it unlikely. I won’t say anything with complete certainty, but I don’t think it is likely. Once again, I’d love to see some controlled scientific study on the issue. But it probably won’t happen. Although, I recently read a story in NPR about a study they did where they separated a couple into two rooms, and had one of them view a television monitor having their spouse occasionally pop up on the TV. When their spouse popped up they were to think loving thoughts about their spouse. The controllers had monitors on the brain of the receiving spouse monitoring brain activity. Turned out when the spouse viewing the TV thought about their spouse, brain activity increased in the receiving spouse.

But alas, this is pretty far removed from priesthood.

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