How can I cope with the idea that I and some of my loved ones won’t be allowed to be with their family in the next life?

[Anonymous]

Chamelea wrote:

DarkJedi wrote:

For me, letting go of the fear and guilt associated with the church or some church teachings was extremely freeing. Not everyone is able to do that.

What steps did you take to let go of that guilt? I’m a very easily -guilty person and need all the advice I can get on this front.

And how do I stop feeling angry about the judgmental comments surrounding the celestial kingdom, eternal families, “the covenant path” and all that? Even when I don’t necessarily believe those things, it’s still hard not to feel angry/depressed about the judgmental/exclusive remarks and how they refer to me and my amazing sister. I think I get subconsciously protective and defensive of her. At the same time, if I’m going to stay LDS like I want to, I need to figure out how to get rid of those feelings so each time I go to church isn’t miserable. (Sorry for the long ramble; it’s late and my brain is kinda all over the place; hopefully I’m kind of making some sense. 😛) Thanks again for all your input. I’ll respond to some of the other points later.

It isn’t easy, and takes some time. My own faith crisis lasted for years, and the transition following that has been many more years (and is ongoing). Minyan Man said “take what you can use & leave the rest” and others have intimated the same thing. I liken my faith crisis to the crumbling of a building (like those we can see right now on the news from Thailand and Myanmar). My faith, and to some extent my life, laid in ruins like a crumbled building. I think this is not uncommon for church members in faith crisis – it seems everything you thought was true/correct isn’t. But it’s not all or nothing – it’s not either all true or all false. Joseph Smith could have been a prophet and could have at the same time could have done some bad things (which I think actually brings hope). The Book of Mormon could not be what it claims and Joseph could still be a prophet, and so forth. When I began to transition, I began to rebuild that building of faith (starting with a basic belief in God). That pile of rubble had some good stuff that was reusable in my new faith. It also had stuff that isn’t useful. And there is stuff from other religions/beliefs that’s also useful (“new” stuff). Finally, there is some of the rubble that I haven’t figured out yet – it’s still there by the beautiful new building and not yet taken to the dump. I might someday find a place for it, or I might eventually throw it out. But that’s my faith building. As you make your own path yours will be different. You may keep things I didn’t and throw things away things that I kept. You have to figure it out for yourself with what works for you.

I am a huge Terryl Givens fan. One of the things I love about him is his ability to present different points of view in a very faithful and non-confrontational way. My favorite Givens book, and it’s not an especially long nor complicated read, is All Things New: Rethinking Sin, Salvation, and Everything in Between. I read this book the first time much later in my transition, but it probably would have sped things along a bit. For me it was very affirming. I could not recommend it more, and sincerely hope you can have the opportunity to read and ponder it. I think it will be immensely helpful to you.

[Anonymous]

DarkJedi wrote:

I understand your concerns about therapists. Sometimes non-member therapists are very appropriate and sometimes they’re not. I don’t know where you live and you don’t need to disclose that if you don’t want to. In the Mormon Corridor there are some non-member therapists that do understand the church and the nuances involved with members. In the Corridor there are also member therapists who are familiar with faith crisis and are able to work with people in faith crisis without being judgmental. Of course, finding these therapists is the trick. Good non-member and member therapist exist outside the Corridor as well, but finding them is even trickier – but keep in mind Mormons are not the only ones who have crises of faith.

Unfortunately I don’t live in “The Corridor,” so I feel like it’s a little harder for therapists to fully understand the situation if I were really to share it in full. When I was trying to talk about it with the therapist I used to have, I kind of just talked about it as a faith crisis in general. Some of it was helpful, but it was still kind of hard not being able to talk about things in greater detail. That’s part of why I’m so grateful for you guys—people who know, understand, and can talk about both sides of the situation. So thank you so much for being here!

DarkJedi wrote:

Stay away from the Jodi Hidebrandts.

Haha, true that!

[Anonymous]

My shortest answer to the question in the title is:

Choose not to believe that you will be separated. That is a very logical conclusion within Mormon theology, despite so many leaders and members not seeing it that way. If you want to believe it that way, then that is your own faithful view (what you believe without seeing it) – and it absolutely is possible to see that in our theology.

I have heard that general idea stated more and more often, more and more openly over the last few years, including to varying degrees in General Conference. Elder Kearon’s first talk as an apostle included it, for example. I know everyone with whom I have shared it personally has nodded and agreed with the way I shared it.

[Anonymous]

I agree with Old-Timer. IMO it doesn’t feel like the intentions of a loving God to create a gulf

between the generations of time like that.

[Anonymous]

Minyan Man wrote:

I agree with Old-Timer. IMO it doesn’t feel like the intentions of a loving God to create a gulf

between the generations of time like that.

Unlike most of the people in testimony meeting, I know very little (nothing really). There are a few things I’m pretty sure about though. This is one of them.

[Anonymous]

Chamelea wrote:

What steps did you take to let go of that guilt? I’m a very easily -guilty person and need all the advice I can get on this front.

I think there is an extra portion of guilt on the women to raise their children in such a way that they will not depart from the “covenant path.”

My wife struggles with this too and avoiding guilt/embarrassment is highly motivating for her. I think that is partly due to LDS culture and partly due to her particular family culture in her formative years.

My wife used to tell me that she wanted to say “no” to something that was being asked of her but she knew it wasn’t Christ-like. I told her that she isn’t Jesus and doesn’t need to be. It is ok to set boundaries and it is ok to say “no” when you really do not have the time, resources, and mental/emotional capacity to say “yes.” I like to think that I gave her the strength to stand up for herself and say “no.”

My advice to help let go of the guilt is to let go of the idea of being perfect (perfectionism is not a good thing mental health wise) and to practice saying “no” sometimes.

[Anonymous]

Quote:

My wife used to tell me that she wanted to say “no” to something that was being asked of her but she knew it wasn’t Christ-like.

Fwiw, Jesus said no to people all the time, especially the religious leaders of his time, but also others. He also tried to say no at the end to God, but added, “If I have to.” (Loose translation)

Christianity as a whole has heaped a lot of stuff on Jesus he actually didn’t say, and we have not been immune from that in the Church. Being human is like that.

[Anonymous]

Old-Timer wrote:

Quote:

My wife used to tell me that she wanted to say “no” to something that was being asked of her but she knew it wasn’t Christ-like.

Fwiw, Jesus said no to people all the time, especially the religious leaders of his time, but also others. He also tried to say no at the end to God, but added, “If I have to.” (Loose translation)

Christianity as a whole has heaped a lot of stuff on Jesus he actually didn’t say, and we have not been immune from that in the Church. Being human is like that.

Right! There seems to be some added layer of guilt for women that being “Christ-like” means to be forever sweet, agreeable, and demure. As if when we say “Christ-like,” what they hear is not “how Christ himself comported himself,” but rather how Christ expects you to perform your gender as a woman. I’ll ask my wife about this and see what she thinks.

[Anonymous]

After talking with my wife, she said that the best synonym that she can come up with for “Christ-like” is longsuffering.

It’s hard to argue that to follow the path of Jesus shouldn’t be to martyr yourself when that was a major Jesus theme.

[Anonymous]

Longsuffering is a good quality but I wonder sometimes if taking it to extremes might cause us to focus too much on Jesus’ suffering and not enough on his triumphs.

Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy.

Another soapbox that I always get on is that the gospel, church, life, you name it, shouldn’t be a plan of happiness deferment. It should bring joy to our lives in the here and now. If it isn’t making us happy sometimes the answer isn’t to muscle through it, sometimes the answer is to shake things up. Do something different. Try something new. Experiment.

Jesus didn’t sacrifice so we could share in his misery. He sacrificed so we could mitigate our own misery or avoid it altogether.

[Anonymous]

Quote:

Jesus didn’t sacrifice so we could share in his misery. He sacrificed so we could mitigate our own misery or avoid it altogether.

This – and everything else in Nibler’s comment. There is a degree of misery inherent in mortal life, but feeling miserable (as a condition) is not healthy for anyone but the truly wicked who need it to feel the need to change.

Using “the plan of happiness” has its danger, as well, since people who struggle to feel happy can feel extra guilty for that struggle – so I like being able to choose whichever phrase resonates with each person at any particular moment: the plan of happiness or the plan of salvation.

So, to the post’s question: We can choose how we look at it, based on whatever motivates us to do and be good to ourselves and others.

[Anonymous]

Roy wrote:

Right! There seems to be some added layer of guilt for women that being “Christ-like” means to be forever sweet, agreeable, and demure. As if when we say “Christ-like,” what they hear is not “how Christ himself comported himself,” but rather how Christ expects you to perform your gender as a woman. I’ll ask my wife about this and see what she thinks.

Roy wrote:

After talking with my wife, she said that the best synonym that she can come up with for “Christ-like” is longsuffering.

It’s hard to argue that to follow the path of Jesus shouldn’t be to martyr yourself when that was a major Jesus theme.

Our culture does focus on teaching women to be “sweet, agreeable, demure, and long-suffering” rather then the Jesus who said “render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s” (and provided the coin). What I mean by including this parable is that Jesus heard the concern, did something to set up the disciples to handle the concern, and then held them accountable for paying the tax they had brought up. In so many instances, LDS moms are held socially responsible for identifying and resolving the concern(s) of their children and spouses so that “it doesn’t come up in family living”, rather then potentially providing some environmental supports and stepping back from the situation.

Most Christian (and especially LDS) women I know wind up grappling with “when and how much” to step back and hold others accountable rather then over-functioning themselves (and put themselves through a lot of guilt about it). This is because a lot of kin-work and executive functioning is hand-waved into the “nurturing” and “teaching” buckets coded specifically for women which is what women are “allowed” and “respected for being” as part of the church-member feminine identity. It’s a core feature of the patriarchy-female follower patterns that happen in and outside the church and households. But really, what it comes down to is how power/respect/authority (including Priesthood Authority)/autonomy function as currency that transfers throughout individuals in the cycle (or doesn’t transfer) – and our LDS culture doesn’t even have language to describe that much very well, or especially inclusive of women.

Also, I feel that our “covenant path” language that describes a variation of the “Hero’s Path” journey that men take removes from women the language that they need for more of the “Heroine’s Journey” that is a more nuanced description of a women’s experience, a women’s path.

[Anonymous]

AmyJ wrote:

Most Christian (and especially LDS) women I know wind up grappling with “when and how much” to step back and hold others accountable rather then over-functioning themselves (and put themselves through a lot of guilt about it).

This was definitely my wife’s situation. She was in a church leadership role years ago and every time that someone below her didn’t do their job or that someone below her got a different calling creating a vacancy that left functions undone, My wife would respond by adding those unfinished tasks to her own workload. When she finally couldn’t do it anymore and asked to be released, a bishopric member suggested that she simply not worry about taking on these “extra” responsibilities. This was not something that my wife could simply “let go” without being released because her name would still be attached to the result and she simply could not be associated with mediocre results without a reduction in feelings of self worth.

Old-Timer wrote:

So, to the post’s question: We can choose how we look at it, based on whatever motivates us to do and be good to ourselves and others.

Right! The ability to choose how we look at it, can be both liberating and unnerving. In my wife’s example above, she did not feel that she could simply change how she looked at it (even though to do so would be theoretically possible and would have saved her a mountain of grief). Best wishes to all that are embarking on this journey.

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