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I find it interesting to note the difference in people’s positions expressed in private and from the pulpit. In a perfect world there would be no difference (maybe). Why are we so afraid of offending one group, and not others? Hopefully you weren’t too upset by your bishop’s public statements. I think I’d tend to put more weight on what he said privately, and not just because I liked it better.
I think it’s healthy that we don’t speak our minds over the pulpit. I don’t want to know what everyone is really thinking. That’s why I would never want to be able to read people’s minds, except in certain arm’s length situations. Also, although culture can be stifling, it does provide some stability and sense of shared being — one needs to respect that culture, and that often means holding your tongue.
My husband has been in the throes of conducting his first tithing settlement. I think it’s been a pretty eye-opening experience for him. I also think he thinks we are being very generous in our own tithing. I don’t really want to be generous with tithing, I just want to cover the bases. I can be generous elsewhere. That’s good to know because I’m in charge of doing that. A friend told us the following story (her husband is the 2nd Counselor in the Bishopric), it was a conversation between her and her daughter who is about 5-6:
“Mom, you should not take your money to the bank anymore. They just lose it. You need to give it all to the bishop.”
And what does the Bishop do with it?
“He sends it up to Jesus.”
Quote:We are asked to pay 10% for tithing, a generous FO, all the other crap like friends of scouting and scout camps/girl camps etc. —- I don’t know about the rest of you – but I don’t have that kind of discretionary money at my disposal. Sooooo – I am not interested in sending my FO back to SLC. I AM interested in helping out my own community first where I live and work and see the suffering first hand — and if that is “offensive” to my local church leaders than so be it.
I totally and 100% agree with you cwald! If you know how to directly help people in your community…that’s awesome and very Christ-like, IMO.
Finances have been stressful for me for a year or so, and so I have definitely had to cut back and learn to say no. Although I do try to give when deacons come to my door, even if that is only a buck or so, and I put spare change in the salvation army bucket when I have some. I hope God is watching and seeing my actions and intentions, not just my tithing statements.
Fwiw, there’s no such thing as a generous tithing. Paying on gross isn’t more “generous” than paying on net, for example. It’s just a different interpretation. Paying more than 10% isn’t “generous”. It’s a choice to pay more in tithing than is requested – and, in my own humble opinion, not a good idea. There are too many other areas and people that need the money for people to pay more than 10% to tithing. I don’t have a problem with the concept of tithing, but I do have a problem with the concept of changing the actual meaning of “a tenth” and shorting other possible recipients of our help. “Generosity” comes in the form of the other things that are requested – like Fast Offerings, missionary funds, etc. It ALSO comes in the form of funds contributed to entitities outside the Church – and it’s just as generous no matter where it goes.
Old-Timer wrote:Fwiw, there’s no such thing as a generous tithing. Paying on gross isn’t more “generous” than paying on net, for example. It’s just a different interpretation. Paying more than 10% isn’t “generous”. It’s a choice to pay more in tithing than is requested – and, in my own humble opinion, not a good idea. There are too many other areas and people that need the money for people to pay more than 10% to tithing. I don’t have a problem with the concept of tithing, but I do have a problem with the concept of changing the actual meaning of “a tenth” and shorting other possible recipients of our help.
“Generosity” comes in the form of the other things that are requested – like Fast Offerings, missionary funds, etc. It ALSO comes in the form of funds contributed to entitities outside the Church – and it’s just as generous no matter where it goes.
I agree wholeheartedly with this. My daughter came to me before tithing settlement concerned she hadn’t paid her tithing in some time. She had taken it with her to Church but never was able to catch a Bishopric member before we left, or just plain forgot. She said she was going to give the Church an extra $5 for the trouble. I explained, no, that that wasn’t necessary — that you can pay in a lump sum and comply with the law. And that there are other places the funds were needed once she’d paid the 10%.
SilentDawning wrote:
She said she was going to give the Church an extra $5 for the trouble. I explained, no, that that wasn’t necessary — that you can pay in a lump sum and comply with the law. And that there are other places the funds were needed once she’d paid the 10%.
That’s a good thing to teach the kids. Paying $5 more to a billion dollar company won’t prove anything to them….it is more about us and our hearts being willing to give. I have always liked the widow’s mite story where Jesus shows how God looks at our donations.doug wrote:I find it interesting to note the difference in people’s positions expressed in private and from the pulpit. In a perfect world there would be no difference (maybe). Why are we so afraid of offending one group, and not others?
Hopefully you weren’t too upset by your bishop’s public statements. I think I’d tend to put more weight on what he said privately, and not just because I liked it better.
What makes it all the more ironic is that in the tithing settlement my Bishop specifically referenced this disparity. He said that there was a lot of truth in what we were discussing and sometimes our expectations as church members on God and the church are not realistic. He referenced the SP’s wife that died of cancer after repeated priesthood blessings. He said that from his experience God will almost never intervene except perhaps to comfort your heart but not to change the outcome.
Then he said, “You will not hear this from over the pulpit, many are not ready for it. It would be like you (me) trying to explain these concepts to your five year old daughter. She wouldn’t understand and it would only serve to confuse her.”
I sometimes think that the brethren (GA’s) are in a similar position. That they may understand the various positions more than they let on but that to be explicit from the pulpit might do more harm than good. Perhaps the best course of action would be to speak in metaphors- as Jesus said, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear.”
So, how much do apostles and GA’s get? Six figures? OMG, the things I never knew, that I never knew! On my mission I taught people that the windows of heaven would open and they would receive such a blessing that there would not be room enough to receive it. So, most of those blessings are spiritual? f4h1
F4H1 – I sent you a PM. As to the question – I don’t think anyone really knows HOW much the GA are pulling in because it is so SECRET. Why? Why can we not know how much we are paying the leaders to run the affairs of the church? Why is this kind of thing kept from the very people who pay their salaries?
Roy wrote:I sometimes think that the brethren (GA’s) are in a similar position. That they may understand the various positions more than they let on but that to be explicit from the pulpit might do more harm than good. Perhaps the best course of action would be to speak in metaphors- as Jesus said, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear.”
He also said “The truth will set you free”.During tithing settlement the BIshop as I knew he would told my family of all the marvelouse blessings assiciated with tithing. However since I knew this was coming I told him my take on it. I said I did not pay tithing expecting any kind of reward whatsoever. I simply paid becasue the church needs the money to operate and I attend church so I do not want to be a slacker and not carry my weight. In fact I told him that looking for a blessing for me personally was a dangerous thing becasue once there is an expectation of a reward I will most likely be disappointed when I do not recieve it. It is a dangerous thing I said to count on someting as intangebile as a blessing for tithing payment. I am much better off paying just becasue I wamt to help out. If some good comes from my donation to others so much the better. My reward would be to see others benefit from my offering. This approch has taken the burden from my life of always looking for a reward for payng tithing.
Amen, Cadence. Amen. Ummmm…. I had no idea the GA got even a stipend. I thought that most of their expenses would be covered but I thought they lived on their retirement or revenue from their books. Who knew. 😯
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