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I know this is short notice, but i’m looking for ideas on how to approach someone. A sister at church that i have befriended has drastically changed in the past few months. She joined the church last year but do to her work schedule could hardly come to church with her child. In the meantime some well meaning parents and friends at church provided rides for her child to sacrament meetings and weekday meetings. I had befriended her before she joined the church and because of that I was assigned to be her visiting teacher. Everything seemed fine until a few months ago. Then she changed her number and didnt tell anyone. A month later she changed it again. Then one day she was home when someone came to pick up her child for a meeting and she ran out and told them that she wouldnt let him/her go anymore. After repeatedly stopping by her house, texting, and calling her, i finally got her to respond. She told me she would only let me talk to her…no one else from the church. I’m seeing her tomorrow. When i relayed this to some TBM friends they encouraged me to firmly testify of my beliefs and what i know to be true, so on and so forth. They also want me to remind her of the covenants her and her child took. I dont believe i should go that route. Obviously she has changed her mind about the church. If she doesnt want to come to church anymore, or have anything to do with anyone else at church period, how should i respond to that? Should i not talk at all about church with her? Should i share with her the struggles i have had? If i do that do you think that would reinforce any negative opinions she has?
I have shared in some past posts some of the struggles i have with our church. One being that i dont believe that everyone should be required to pay tithing. I havent paid tithing since last year. I realize this may prevent me from attending the Temple. I have a Temple Recommend but havent went since i was last paying tithing. It has become really awkward because friends know that i dont have reliable transportation to go to the temple (its quite a drive for us). So they have been trying for the past month and a half to take me there. But luckily either work or dr appointments have been in the way. I make like .50 more than the mininum wage so its really hard for me to pay too….no one here supports me but me. My opinion on tithing has drastically changed in the past 6 mths or so. It may also be due to the fact that the Bishop has really been emphasizing that people need to be more “self reliant” and “sufficient”. How can you complain people are not temporally self reliant enough when they are giving you 10% of their earnings? If i were to do that i would need the church to pay my electric bill every month or my water bill.
I have also struggled due to being one of the very few single adults in my ward…she is single too. I have often been tempted to go to another church just to see if there is a way to meet more single adults my age. Most of the singles in my ward are widows. I bring this up because i think she is hinting to me that she wants to start doing some activities that many other members in our church wouldnt do because alcohol is involved. I havent drank alcohol in almost 7 years now…and if im put in an environment where there is alcohol i might be tempted to drink again (it was never a problem for me i just know the WOW says we shouldnt). If i complain about some of these things with her im afraid i will be seen as encouraging her to leave the church.
Any thoughts?
wornoutsneakers, in your posting you said the following: Quote:A sister at church
that i have befriendedhas drastically changed in the past few months. To help you answer your question, I have to ask, why did you choose to befriend her? Was it because you wanted to help her join the church? Was it because you wanted to be her friend? Was it something else?
I try to treat everyone the same regardless of how active or inactive they maybe. That’s the way I’ve always wanted to be treated regardless of my activity. IMO, it is hypocritical to be someone’s friend only when they are active. Or feel that I must preach repentance when they are living a standard that is not
Quote:approved
. Whatever that means.
When it comes to alcohol, I’ve socialized with people from work who drank (& I don’t). I never make a grand announcement why I don’t drink. I keep them guessing. I’ve found out that after about 2 or 3 drinks, we don’t have a lot in common anymore. That’s the time I usually leave. It is your personal choice. Sometimes it’s helpful to be the designated driver.
Mike, I befriended her before she joined the church. I had an very uplifting spiritual experience with her at one the lessons the elders gave. Part of the reason why our friendship grew so much was because we had alot in common. Im not saying im unsure whether or not to stay her friend. What im unsure about is if and how i should bring up the subject of church topics. Several people at church want her to come back but i dont feel comfortable encouraging her to do so. Partly because she has made it clear already she doesnt want to, and also because of my doubts. In my own past, i have felt coerced to stay active in church and accept church callings….so the line they (Bishopric and others) want me to use on her doesnt set with me so well. I just dont want her to say later …”well wornoutsneakers told me that she doesnt agree with this part of church doctrine” or “wornoutsneakers told me she has thought about leaving and joining a different church”. I just dont want to be viewed as negative. I have never shared these thoughts with anyone before…except on here. Im so unsure myself. I guess the best policy is to be honest and if she asks for my opinion to share it.
I would refrain from going down the path of reminding her about the covenants she made. This may be just me but that feels like an attempt to guilt someone into doing something. I’ll be frank, I do not like that approach. It harms people and that type of motivation doesn’t produce growth. I’d probably also avoid the firmly testifying of my beliefs. She’s willing to talk to you, maybe she’s unwilling to talk to others because they only ever testify firmly of their beliefs and try to get her to come back to church. She might feel like a project but she needs to be treated like a person.
I’d just talk to her and be a friend. If
shewants to talk about church then that’s fine, but that would be the only way I’d broach the subject of church, allowing her to initiate the discussion. It might not happen, and that’s ok. Sometimes people need to know that there are no ulterior motives behind every interaction. In order for people to know that it has to be true. That means that there shouldn’t be ulterior motives behind our interactions . The tricky part is that other people in your church unit know you’ll be visiting her. They’re going to want to know how your efforts to win her back went. In that regard you might have to keep the wolves at bay.
wornoutsneakers, you know what to do. You said it yourself:
Quote:I guess the best policy is to be honest and if she asks for my opinion to share it.
Then, don’t worry what others in the ward think. Easy to say, hard to do. I know.You will find the right way.
nibbler wrote:Sometimes people need to know that there are no ulterior motives behind every interaction. In order for people to know that it has to be true.(
This. So much this. If your friend has any road back to the church, it will be through unreserved, no-strings-attached friendship. And if she has no desire to return to church, or never does return, you don’t want to have any regrets about how honestly and lovingly you treated her.Maybe you could report to your church contacts that you sense she has serious concerns and you’re afraid that coming on too strong will drive her away. So right now you are just trying to be her friend so she will hopefully feel comfortable opening up to you about her concerns. I don’t know if that will work for you, but it’s an idea.
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I pretty much would have said what Nibbler said. Be her friend without an ulterior motive. Discuss the church if she brings it up. When I first stopped going to church, and for years afterward, no amount of other people bearing testimony had any effect. Missionaries are taught there’s power in bearing testimony and under the right circumstances that is true – but it’s not a hard and fast rule and it’s not magic. Don’t do it unless you really feel very strongly about it.
If you really are her friend that’s what you’ll be. Friends are more important than rescuers who are not truly being friends.
Hi Wornoutsneakers, I think everyone’s advice so far has been great.
I think the best thing to do when visiting someone who hasn’t been coming or doesn’t want to come to church is to just
listento them. If she wants to, she’ll tell you what’s going on, especially if you visit her as her friend. After you know what’s going on, then you will know if and how you can help her. Too often well meaning church members drive someone away because they try to help without understanding the person. Bearing your testimony and reminding her of her covenants without understanding her can be off-putting or hurtful.
You should also come up with something you can tell church leaders so they back off and don’t muddle things up. It should be truthful, but keep sensitive details confidential. Sometimes I share what I’ll tell church leaders with the member. Something like:
“You know other people at church care about you and miss you. If they ask me how you’re doing I’ll just say ***.”
Earl Parsons wrote:I think the best thing to do when visiting someone who hasn’t been coming or doesn’t want to come to church is to just
listento them. If she wants to, she’ll tell you what’s going on, especially if you visit her as her friend.
Good point Earl. I do recall all those years ago when I stopped going to church that what I really wanted and needed was for someone to just listen and not argue or tell me I was wrong. That outlet is now provided for here – but how I wish I had it then.
DarkJedi wrote:Earl Parsons wrote:I think the best thing to do when visiting someone who hasn’t been coming or doesn’t want to come to church is to just
listento them. If she wants to, she’ll tell you what’s going on, especially if you visit her as her friend.
Good point Earl. I do recall all those years ago when I stopped going to church that what I really wanted and needed was for someone to just listen and not argue or tell me I was wrong. That outlet is now provided for here – but how I wish I had it then.
Yup, listening without judgement can be HUGE. Perhaps it might be beneficial to say something like – “I want you to know that my friendship to you has nothing to do with what church you might attend.” or “I believe that you are a smart person making good choices for your own personal circumstances.”
If it were to get back to the ward then so what!?!?! Could someone rationally challenge that your frienship should be church conditional or that you shouldn’t support her in making decisions for her own life.
Great suggestions so far.
I see the guy I baptized most every week. I’m a good friend of his, give him lifts, helped him out with work, got him a lodger, go on day trips with him etc. He knows the score. I don’t beat him over the head with the church. Occasionally we discuss it. I encourage him to pray (“because that is your own thing, no one else’s, and it helps”), and have taken him to the Employment Resource Center. I don’t bully him into coming back or reading the scriptures, lecture him etc. I’m his friend. We met through the church, we have common interests, but we talk about and do other things most of the time.
I guess I feel a bit responsible for him as I baptized him, but I don’t see him as property of the church. As my friend, I look out for him. He has a disability, but I don’t see him in those terms.
**Update** So i met with my friend today. It was sortof of awkward at first because she hasnt been coming around for several months. But her son was there to break the ice and he was glad to see me, he hugged me. After some general conversation i asked what was new in her life and casually brought up church. She confided to me that she never had any intention of joining the church, she said she felt pressured by another person that introduced her to the church. I didnt feel it was appropriate to bear my testimony or remind her of the obvious. She kept explaining herself and i just said “look, its your life, you have to make the decison about what is right for you and your family now”. We ended up having a very nice evening. I plan on telling my Bishop what she told me…basically that doesnt want to have anything to do with the church, she never believed in what was presented to her, and she has chosen a different path. My future interactions with her will just be on a friend basis, not a visiting teacher.
I dont mind at all what she has chosen for the basic reason that sometimes i question what i do too. It always puzzled me why my Bishop would say that there is truth in all religions…but we are the only true church and way back to Heavenly Father. I believe there are multiple paths to God. I dont believe that you have to accomplish a certain list of things to go back to Heavenly Father. I have accepted Jesus Christ as my Savior, i will try my best to be as charitable, caring, and selfless as i can, but im not perfect and i know he wouldnt expect that. That is my opinion. Probably doesnt jive with the church, but oh well.
You did right IMHO. Be her friend. If she ever wants to come back. She will. Stranger things have happened. Your response was appropriate. I never bought the many paths thing though. Truth is truth, whether it’s in our religion or another. But it’s the same path essentially. It might look different, but it all leads the same way.
Of course, many things are UNTRUE in various religions as well including our own. White shirts and the priesthood ban in ours, the caste system of Hinduism, sexism in Islam etc etc
wos, I like your approach to this issue & your outcome. Welcome to the “middle way”.
I like your approach, too, including your plan to return and report to the bishop. Make sure he understands that you do not intend to return as his messenger. I hope you can continue your friendship with her – that is, IMO, loving your neighbor.
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