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Well, I’m back. 
I’ve tried to explain to her that this isn’t something that I did on purpose, it was just to try and understand where my husband was coming from, but I know she just can’t see it this way. We have a family website, and lately she has been posting things that I know are directly related to me. She posted this poem from a general conference talk a few days ago, and I can’t help being really upset by it.
’Twas a sheep not a lamb
That strayed away in the parable Jesus told,
A grown-up sheep that strayed away
From the ninety and nine in the fold.
And why for the sheep should we seek
And earnestly hope and pray?
Because there is danger when sheep go wrong:
They lead the lambs astray.
Lambs will follow the sheep, you know,
Wherever the sheep may stray.
When sheep go wrong,
It won’t take long till the lambs are as wrong as they.
And so with the sheep we earnestly plead
For the sake of the lambs today,
For when the sheep are lost
What a terrible cost
The lambs will have to pay.
It’s like she thinks that I haven’t even considered what going inactive will do to my children, and their future choices. It is by far my biggest worry in trying to decide how to go forward in my life. Anyway, I am trying so hard to act ‘normal’ towards her and my siblings, so that they can see that I am still me and I still love them, but, mentally, I’m not sure how to handle this. I get really depressed about it at times because I know how they view me at this point.
Anyway, thanks for letting me vent.
Quote:Roadlesstraveled wrote…I explained in very general terms that there were inconsistencies in doctrine and teachings, and how the God that I believe in would not be behind some of these teachings that I’ve learned about.
I’ve tried to explain to her that this isn’t something that I did on purpose,
it was just to try and understand where my husband was coming from, Anyway, thanks for letting me vent.
Thank you for venting Roadlesstraveled. So your husband is on this road also? If so, did it first upset you when you learned how he felt? How did you come to terms? Sorry about all the questions, I’m just looking for help also.. Anyway, thanks for letting me question.
f4h1
Hi RoadLessTravelled, Thanks for “venting” lol. I used to be a tbm at one time. I encountered a bad social environment at church and became inactive. I did reactivate but again I was in the throes of disappointment relating to marriage problems and became inactive again.
As time passes, it seems, becoming involved with the LDS church seems less important. I consider it a part of my journey with life and no doubt I have had spiritual experiences i will never forget. I don’t feel I can trust members in my geographical area and me becoming active could only happen in a completely different province where I have relatives around who are going as well.
I have read a lot here from people who post here. I relate to a lot of it.
I guess what seems to be the thing that sticks out the most to me is how dependent people become on the church for their salvation. If they don’t do this or don’t do that they will lose out on eternal life, so there is a lot of pressure from LDS culture to make church attendance so central. Even at one point the Holy Spirit spoke to me and said “Don’t make the church your entire social life.”
The question to ask is what do you do when something happens to you where you feel you have to stop going ? I had a bad social situation in my ward happen to me where I felt I was an object of gossip. I felt my privacy was raped. I no longer liked the people I was going to church with. Yet I got to a point where I felt awful because I felt I would lose out on my salvation if I didn’t attend church anymore. I did become inactive and just reasoned that you have to do what’s important for the here and now and forget about worrying about the hereafter. I felt I had to do what was best for me at the time.
I even lived outside the church’s standards for a while (and still do). It was hard at the beginning because I felt I was on a path that wasn’t leading to the celestial kingdom. As the years have gone by I have let myself psychologically relax as it relates to church standards and the fear of losing out on eternal life. I’ve reasoned that sometimes you have to just cope with what goes on in the here and now and to stop worrying about the here-after.
I do attend church but not the LDS church. I attend with my girlfriend and overall it has been a positive experience for me. Socially i’m accepted and it’s great, a real blessing.
BeLikeChrist
Thanks for the update. My viewpoint? Some people just can’t see and understand a different perspective. Sometimes, it really is that simple.
I have a good friend whose father also posts things to all his children that are pointed at one or more of them. He views it as potential lessons and help; those one or more of them see it very differently.
The thing is, he has a really wonderful heart – and what he does he really does do out of a deep, true, expansive love for his children. He would do anything for them – and he has done incredible things for them over the years. He’s a good, good man – who just happens to have some really annoying perspectives, beliefs and practices.
I feel for you and wish things weren’t as they are – but this sounds like something that simply is. You’re going to have to accept that and give a grateful nod to the fact that she loves you enough to try to help.
about my first post above: been thinking about my negative experiences relating to church and how it lead to me becoming inactive. I remember the kind of person I was back then. I was one who was very blunt and didn’t much care what I said. I had gotten this way because I felt that people talked about me behind my back anyway. My bishop and I had a discussion one day in his office and he was railing about one member in particular and I said: “you just have to love him”. My bishop, for whatever reason, never had a great love for me. I could never figure it out. One time it bothered me and the Spirit spoke and said: “it doesn’t matter if he doesn’t love you. I love you !”
to make a long story short I overcame my “brash” character. i became one who saw the value of being agreeable even if others i knew disagreed with me.
i miss the Spirit I have felt at church and at the temple. my disaffection relates to feeling i have been looked upon as a social outcast. yes, I may have been treated unfairly, but then again, my behavior at times was very questionable.
I would love to talk to people from my old ward who knew my situation back then when i felt socially stigmatized. instead it seems neither they or me seem to be able to reconcile those past social misgivings. i know I’m a good person. the social situation i was involved in where I felt I had become socially stigmatized was very unique. how we all dealt with it was difficult for everyone involved. no one can undo the past, but just try not to repeat it.
but all in all it is my prayer that someday i can come back to the church and partake of the blessings of the holy temple and maybe reconcile with those in my past who shared in that delicate situation that lead me to inactivity.
letting go of hurt, resentment, and forgiving all who hurt me and vice versa may be the only way i can overcome this “great gulf of social divide” between those of my past and myself.
BeLikeChrist
Dear Mom, I noticed the poem about the lambs. It’s very touching. Thanks for sharing the depths of your feelings in such a poignant way. I pray I do what is best to lead the lambs to the Master. And I appreciate knowing that you are praying for me.
Love,
RLT
There’s nothing like appreciation and understanding to melt walls.
p.s. Heh, heh. Maybe you will lead not only the lambs, but the 99 sheep in the wilderness back to the Shepherd.
I’m growing less and less impressed with how people react to those who have doubts. Its as if they just write them off. After you came clean about what was concerning you, that’s where it kind of ended, then, out came the guilt trip of the impact on your children. I feel for you. Not sure what advice to give, other than to learn from it myself…one has to keep these things to oneself really. The TBM crowd assumes you’re not keeping commandments or doing other things that make YOU directly responsible for loss of testimony. Loss of testimony is rarely attributed to intellect, study, the bad things others do to us that makes us question the Church — it’s always attributed to some fault in the doubter. It’s sad really.
I raised alarms recently and when I went back to Church this Sunday, people kept asking me if I was Ok and such. One woman told me she needed to get her husband (my home teacher) over to my house. Should that happen, there will be no sharing of my true feelings; that way leads to poems like the one you received.
I like Tom’s rejoinder, provided it’s worded ambiguously enough to leave you open to go whichever direction you want to go, and expresses your true feelings, on some level.
Since my recent coming out (about my testimony) I have found that people have very few tools to deal with me: 1) Sorrow: How could you be deceived and wander off in darkness? I pray that someday you’ll find your way back into the light
2) Anger: Quit being selfish and get a grip on yourself. Who do you think you are, anyway?
3) Disbelief: I know you have a testimony if you would just open your heart and accept it (possibly followed by an admonition to bear your testimony until you believe it)
4) Fear & defensiveness: I don’t want to hear you anti-mormon views (possibly followed by a passionate testimony bearing)
5) Any combination of the above
In general there is a perception that you have fallen and are lost in darkness, and possibly the recitation of a certain slant on free agency: you are free to choose for yourself, but watch out, you’re asking for trouble. You cannot possibly debate or even explain your point of view to a TBM because, even though you feel like you have bravely opened your eyes to difficult truths, regardless of the consequences, they think you have sold your birthright for a mess of potage (and their imaginations might run wild entertaining what sins that might entail).
I do not try to debate or convince anyone. It’s not my place to attack what they hold sacred. I accept that they are trying to make sense of me as viewed through a very narrow tube that will not permit them to accept that what I’m feeling could possibly be more enlightened than what they are feeling. As a consequence I am unable to discuss the issues openly with any of my friends and loved ones. And that really makes me sad.
Korash
Thanks everyone for your kind words and support. I know my family is very concerned, and as many of you pointed out, they can’t even begin to see the full picture unless they are willing to look at the issues in depth like we have. I have to admit that the poem my mother posted bothered me because I know it is right. What we as parents do while raising our children has a huge impact, and since my disaffection, I am so scared for my children. I felt so secure in my beliefs and what I was supposed to do everyday of my life, I had my nice checklist that made me think everything was under control and I was doing what was right and setting the best example for them. Now, that is gone, and I don’t know how to give security to my children without the church, and at the same time, I know I don’t want to use a lot of what I was taught at church in my teaching them. I guess I’m trying to say that I feel lost right now in the parenting area, so, that poem hit a really sore spot for me. My children are young now, but, I am still scared for the future. Anyway, thanks again for the support.
Roadlesstraveled wrote:I had my nice checklist that made me think everything was under control and I was doing what was right and setting the best example for them. Now, that is gone, and I don’t know how to give security to my children without the church, and at the same time, I know I don’t want to use a lot of what I was taught at church in my teaching them.
Maybe think of it like home schooling a child. Sure it’s scary, at first, to wonder if you can provide a curriculum that will match that of the school system, that your child might not fall behind.
As with home schooling, I’ve seen disastrous ones, where the “list” (curriculum) was poor and the results horrible. And yet on the other hand, have seen exceptional ones where the list/curriculums were well planned and super exceptional results were seen.
I’ve afraid you may need to just grow some tough skin for mom’s actions (which are not likely soon to end), and get back to focusing on that “list” You can provide the needed curriculum if you choose, and it can and will excel.
Now get busy on the list.
Since my children are older, I haven’t had to deal too much with the central issue that you raise (though it *is* still an issue for me). I am so grateful for that, because I know that otherwise my internal struggles would be that much more distressing and poignant — so I feel for you. Raising a child in the church can be as you describe it — almost like being on autopilot — and figuring out how to proceed without that structure is a real challenge. Even if you were to decide to remain active in the church, with your more nuanced understanding, you now have a greater responsibility to understand and filter exactly what it is that your children are internalizing. Personally, I think that some kind of spiritual instruction is important for children, so if you aren’t active in the LDS church currently, you may want to consider finding other avenues, formal or otherwise, for teaching them about that side of themselves. Perhaps that’s one of the main reasons why churches were invented in first place, so the home schooling analogy is a pretty good one, I think.
When you have truly made your peace with yourself (and maybe your immediate family) about your own spirituality, you will then be in a better position to respond to these well-intended overtures from extended family or others.
You must be truly inspired! 🙂 I had never even considered the home school analogy in reference to teaching them at home spiritually, but, I can completely relate to it. I was home schooled along with my four siblings, and I have also home schooled my oldest two children (7 and
for the past several years. So that really resonates with me. Thank you!I’m scared for my kids too. Not necessarily about church, but just because of everything in life. I think it is evidence I care and love for them and want them to make good decisions. My kids sometimes don’t appreciate it when I worry, because to them it means I don’t trust them or understand them. I guess that is true, I can’t perfectly understand them. All I know is I love them, and so I will keep giving them my fatherly advice, hoping it is helpful, but mostly telling them I love them. I love them enough to care about them. I love them enough to support them when I can. But sometimes I can’t, when I disagree with them. So I just try to show an increase in love as much as I can, even if I disagree with them or give them advice.
It sounds like your mom cares about you enough to be concerned. That doesn’t make her right….no matter how much she thinks she is. But I would suggest you focus on recognizing she cares enough to talk about it with you. The poem was a way to say she is worried about you and your kids.
There are no guarantees that you children will wander into dangerous places because you don’t go to church, just like the multiple examples there are of no guarantees the lambs don’t wander into dangerous places if you actively attend church. Just reassure your mom you love your kids to death and am trying to teach them best you can, and reassure her you love her and appreciate all she taught you.
That is how I handle it. When people worry about me, I’m grateful they care enough to worry, and I open up to listen to what they say. Usually it is nothing new that I haven’t been through in my mind many many times, and then I’m ok with it.
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