How Do You Pray?

[Anonymous]

Sometimes I pray like this:

Get real comfortable, (i.e. pillows for knees if you feel to kneel etc.). Speak the Lord’s Prayer vocally, and then just listen for the next 20 minutes or so.

Speaking vocally from time to time as you might feel to questions, or thank etc. but mostly listening.

For me, the “still small voice” comes as thoughts, and quieting down my mind and focusing on the separation/discernment of those thoughts is key. I assume that audible prayer helped in the separation. Don’t get in a hurry.

[Anonymous]

PiperAlpha wrote:

Help me understand further, because prayer has not been a staple for me lately.

::: Big Hugs ::: I don’t have the time right now to give you a thoughtful response but I will be pondering on it. I know that prayer can mean different things to different people – and that is OK.

[Anonymous]

PiperAlpha wrote:

I do assume prayer has no affect on external matters. Realizing this was part of my crisis of faith. Therefore, spending time to kneel and be grateful to remind myself to be grateful seems less critical for me now. Maybe I can just be grateful as I commute into work and reflect on things?

I read the relief society newsletter in my ward and it had a presidency message about a lost set of car keys or something of that nature. The RS pres. prayed and almost immediately found the keys. Then it said something important about how this was more than just about car keys, it was a gesture from God to let her know that God was aware of her – even in small things – the keys mattered, because she mattered.

I don’t believe God intervenes in our daily lives except maybe the rarest of occasions. I therefore do not believe that God located the car keys for the RS pres. But the spiritual experience she had as a result of her prayer is very real and has important consequences. I can recognize and value the message even if I am suspicious of the packaging.

If you pray for many things, you stand a fair chance of getting at least some of them. When that happens, you can attribute that to God. This will help you to feel gratitude and humility (or in this example a feeling of being important and valid) that could have been more difficult if you had not prayed for such a thing (you may instead attribute it to your being lucky or clever instead). As I said before, gratitude and humility seem to be important ingredients for happiness.

Roy wrote:

Prayer can lead to confidence and strengthened faith. Some may discredit this as a false sense of security but we all operate under false security to differing extents and it is useful in living our lives unafraid (as long as it isn’t taken to the extreme, like dancing with dangerous snakes etc.)

I sometimes talk with individuals of various faiths that have felt that God directed a certain move or career path. They may say something like, “I know this is where God wants me to be.” Now a distant move or career path selection (or even career change :wtf: ) can be a scary thing and there are no guarantees. In many situations it could be advantageous to have the confidence that God is guiding your steps and has a purpose for these things. This could prevent unnecessary hand-wringing and second guessing. I am also reminded of this PBS special ages ago wherein these baby orphan chimps without the rearing of a caring environment become skittish, withdrawn, even cowering. I know I have had the confidence to take certain risks in my life because I knew if everything fell apart I could rely on family to catch my freefall. Oftentimes we live life without a safety net, but since we can’t just pack up our ball and go home it is preferable to pretend there are fail safes.

Note – I think the first two elements work much better when coupled with a belief in an interventionist God.

PiperAlpha wrote:

I feel I was burned by this false sense of security in the past. I’m not sure about this for me and my situation.

I don’t know if you have read my introduction, but I was burned as well. I felt that living righteously and honoring my priesthood entitled me to certain blessings of protection over my family. When my youngest daughter died in childbirth (stillborn) I was forcibly disillusioned. After much reflection I have concluded the following about my pre-crisis assumptive reality: 1) Had a tragedy not befallen me, I could have continued quite happily living a charmed life. 2) That my assumptive reality didn’t contribute to my daughter’s death (I didn’t deny her medical care in preference of faith healing etc.). 3) That part of recovery from the grief process is the establishment of a modified assumptive reality. As I mentioned before life is a scary place and unless you’ve been conditioned not to trust anyone and to see terrible danger around every corner you probably have an assumptive reality that includes some form of A) The world is good, the world is just, C) I am a good person. Such an assumptive reality protects us and allows us to live. Why would we ever go to work if our family could be dead upon our return? So yes, I too have been disillusioned when the safety net wasn’t there.

PiperAlpha wrote:

Roy wrote:

“Prayer can be motivational for change.”This is a great point. I still use prayer for this. I feel it helps to just talk to my God about what I need help changing … and I’m not sure why I find that comforting. But I do. This is probably my greatest reason why I pray when I do.

This works for me too. I imagine it is akin to telling a group of people about a goal or even asking for help, you feel more committed. I don’t want to let my Heavenly Father down.

PiperAlpha wrote:

Roy wrote:

“Prayer is an important element in establishing trust in and a relationship with God.”This one, I’m not sure I buy into yet. If God is not intervening, I’m not sure how it establishes “trust”. If God’s ways are higher than my ways, I can’t trust or predict or figure it out. I’m better off just letting things happen, and I’ll see God’s will when it happens. Prayer doesn’t seem to be a part of that equation.

As long as you view prayers as transactional this will be a problem. I have a good relationship with my parents. I am a grown man with a family of my own and they live over 1000 miles away. When I call them I do not expect them to do something for me, yet I trust them and deepen my relationship with them through our heartfelt conversations. Similarly, transaction prayers don’t do much for me anymore. I believe Brian used to have a signature line that said something like “there is a place deep inside of you, a place without seams, where you will never be injured, never be betrayed” I use personal prayer time to find this place in my centre and it is there where God finds me.

[Anonymous]

Roy wrote:

The RS pres. prayed and almost immediately found the keys. Then it said something important about how this was more than just about car keys, it was a gesture from God to let her know that God was aware of her – even in small things – the keys mattered, because she mattered.

I don’t believe God intervenes in our daily lives except maybe the rarest of occasions. I therefore do not believe that God located the car keys for the RS pres. But the spiritual experience she had as a result of her prayer is very real and has important consequences. I can recognize and value the message even if I am suspicious of the packaging.

To me, it seems like we like to put meaning on things, whether God had anything to do with it or not. We like to use explanations and spiritual experiences from church teachings to reaffirm our beliefs. But sometimes I really wonder if prayer had anything to do with it. Maybe faith just helps us see what we want, and that can be enriching in our lives. So I don’t mock anyone that finds value for themselves in it. I just don’t know what that means for me if that is how I view it.

I have had many “found my car key” answers to prayers. They really did help me feel good about the Lord being aware of me and who I was.

But when a major crisis of life and death strikes my family, and I get no answers…well, I feel like I don’t want help finding car keys when I can’t get help when I REALLY need it.

That sounds bad. I don’t know how to express it right. But that is how it made me feel. I can’t believe a loving God really helps me find car keys, but sits by and does nothing when someone in my family is about to die. Why not let me lose car keys, but help me when I really need it? That would let me know he is really there. I’m not saying I need God to save my family from a situation (like death) or do things my way…I understand mortality has things that will happen…but at least comfort me during a major crisis…but I just got nothing and it confused me. It burned me. As a result, I’m ok with losing car keys from time to time, that’s not a big deal to me. And so, I’m not sure what good prayer is for me anymore if I’m trying to be close to God throughout the day and trying to recognize his influence when I see it. I don’t need to kneel and ask for anything and build any expectations. I can just hold a prayer in my heart, and be glad God is good all the time.

[Anonymous]

PiperAlpha wrote:

To me, it seems like we like to put meaning on things, whether God had anything to do with it or not. We like to use explanations and spiritual experiences from church teachings to reaffirm our beliefs. But sometimes I really wonder if prayer had anything to do with it. Maybe faith just helps us see what we want, and that can be enriching in our lives. So I don’t mock anyone that finds value for themselves in it. I just don’t know what that means for me if that is how I view it.

I have had many “found my car key” answers to prayers. They really did help me feel good about the Lord being aware of me and who I was.

I agree to all of what you have said here. My post that lead to your question was about – if prayer does not influence events outside ourselves, why does prayer seem to “work” for so many? So I was continuing in this line about what benefit clumps would be found among most people who find prayer effective. Why do they keep doing it if it is so unreliable?

PiperAlpha wrote:

I have had many “found my car key” answers to prayers. They really did help me feel good about the Lord being aware of me and who I was.

But when a major crisis of life and death strikes my family, and I get no answers…well, I feel like I don’t want help finding car keys when I can’t get help when I REALLY need it.

That sounds bad. I don’t know how to express it right. But that is how it made me feel. I can’t believe a loving God really helps me find car keys, but sits by and does nothing when someone in my family is about to die. Why not let me lose car keys, but help me when I really need it? That would let me know he is really there. I’m not saying I need God to save my family from a situation (like death) or do things my way…I understand mortality has things that will happen…but at least comfort me during a major crisis…but I just got nothing and it confused me. It burned me. As a result, I’m ok with losing car keys from time to time, that’s not a big deal to me. And so, I’m not sure what good prayer is for me anymore if I’m trying to be close to God throughout the day and trying to recognize his influence when I see it. I don’t need to kneel and ask for anything and build any expectations.

I too interpreted the message of God’s perceived interventions as evidence of His love for me. Similarly, when it seemed as though God had abandoned me I wondered about His love for me…and later about my worthiness for His love. The message that I internalized last of all is that my Heavenly Father loves me. Period! Full Stop!

He will always love me, even though he may never intervene. This is an extension of my signature lines.

PiperAlpha wrote:

I can just hold a prayer in my heart, and be glad God is good all the time.

It sounds like you have reached a similar conclusion.

[Anonymous]

Roy wrote:

He will always love me, even though he may never intervene. This is an extension of my signature lines.

Ya, I think I’ve reached the similar conclusions…although sometimes I find it less than comfortable for me to conclude such. It puts more ownership on me to deal with things and just keep faith and hope it will all work out, but sometimes I still often wish for God to take the cup from me magically…nevertheless, I need to find His will and do it, recognizing sometimes I won’t know His will and I’ll make a mistake.

Is making mistakes one way to find His will?

[Anonymous]

Quote:

Roy said:

I felt that living righteously and honoring my priesthood entitled me to certain blessings of protection over my family. When my youngest daughter died in childbirth (stillborn) I was forcibly disillusioned.

I, too, feel forcibly disillusioned by life experiences, and find prayer little help in dealing with external reality. It hasn’t been much help for my eternal reality either, except perhaps in feeling some sense of peace despite it all. But a sense of peace is no trivial matter in our chaotic world, that seems more arbitrary and capricious all the time.

Recently I have come to accept a very pragmatic view of the purpose of life. I feel that at the very least I can make moral and ethical choices that are positive and uplifting. If I try my very best to be a decent, caring, compassionate human being, despite all my frailties and sins, that that should bode well for me when I meet my Maker.

I hope that the Mormon take on the purpose of life is correct, and that God is a caring compassionate being I hope I (and everyone else) will be compensated for the crap experience in mortality, and that God will accept my feeble attempts to “do good” and extend the atonement to make my soul whole. Mormonism has a far better explanation than the rest of Christianity. It appeals to my sense of justice that every human being will have the opportunity at some point here or hereafter to learn and accept Jesus Christ and the gospel. Most, if not all other Christian churches, say now or never. But I can’t accept that kind of god. Were it not for Mormonism, I’d probably be a Buddhist.

A separate thought: Back 40 years or so when I was in a student ward at the University of Utah, I remember a bishop saying that if the kind of relationship a person had with his/her father often looked like the relationship with his/her God. Roy’s comment seems to be in a similar vein:

Quote:

I am also reminded of this PBS special ages ago wherein these baby orphan chimps without the rearing of a caring environment become skittish, withdrawn, even cowering. I know I have had the confidence to take certain risks in my life because I knew if everything fell apart I could rely on family to catch my freefall. Oftentimes we live life without a safety net, but since we can’t just pack up our ball and go home it is preferable to pretend there are fail safes.

Sometimes life is a crap shoot. I can’t deny that, and I try not to judge other people (and myself) for responding poorly to “crappy” experiences. Nevertheless, we should try to turn the lemons into lemon aid.

[Anonymous]

Quote:

Roy said:

I felt that living righteously and honoring my priesthood entitled me to certain blessings of protection over my family. When my youngest daughter died in childbirth (stillborn) I was forcibly disillusioned.

Maybe a subject for a different thread but I’ve wondered if we’re entitled to anything other than the chance to get in the game. Believing that you’ll be protected becuase you’ve paid you tithing or whatever seems to be a setup for disappointment.

Quote:

A separate thought: Back 40 years or so when I was in a student ward at the University of Utah, I remember a bishop saying that if the kind of relationship a person had with his/her father often looked like the relationship with his/her God. .

My first mission president, Truman Madsen, told us the same thing my first day in the mission. I’ve thought over the years it explained a lot of things.

[Anonymous]

GBSmith wrote:

Roy said:

I felt that living righteously and honoring my priesthood entitled me to certain blessings of protection over my family. When my youngest daughter died in childbirth (stillborn) I was forcibly disillusioned.

Maybe a subject for a different thread but I’ve wondered if we’re entitled to anything other than the chance to get in the game. Believing that you’ll be protected because you’ve paid you tithing or whatever seems to be a setup for disappointment.

I agree, but the thought of “righteous behavior = blessing up to and in including the tangible sort” is very prevalent and is the natural leaning of most humans due to our sense of justice. I believe the proof texts for this thought are D&C 82:10 “I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say” and 130: 20-21 “There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated— And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.”

Perhaps I am too oriented to the traditional interpretation of these verses to see any other interpretation, but I simply discount them. (Ray, do you have any parsing that would provide an alternative?)

Mercy & Grace recently quoted the song “Blessings” by Laura Story.

http://www.staylds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2155&start=20” class=”bbcode_url”>http://www.staylds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2155&start=20

I am intrigued by the idea that God can hold our hand through adversity and tragedy and guide us through it to perhaps point towards eternal principles or to see them in a new light. Good Stuff.

[Anonymous]

I have been out of the lds loop and gone for awhile but wanted to add my perspective. I have learned more about prayer and how to pray from the people in the Nazerene church and my Gay/Christian forum this past year than I have in a long time. They pray in such detail and with such heart and soul. It feel so powerful because they pray like they know God is listening to them. They show such Christlike love, especially to their enemies that it touches my heart. I can actually feel through out the week when they are praying for me. When they pray for my friends they feel it too. I wish I had their kind of faith to believe, but I believe more in prayer now because of them. My husband and I pray mostly in our minds and heart now when a thought comes to us.

[Anonymous]

Oh, I want to quickly share an example of prayer by these people’s faith recently. One of my friends in the Nazerene church had a neighbor family whom she was very close to. They were an atheist family. This atheist family had two daughters. One died at 4 years old from a brain tumor. The other daughter was 20 years old and she died recently from a similar brain tumor. My friend from the Nazerene church had many members praying for this family that they would be able to believe in Christ. This was a poor family and the father had already missed alot of work because of his sick daughter. They had medical bills and could not afford a funeral. So my Nazerene friend went to a small neighborhood ice cream/grocery store down the street and got the manager to devote a whole Sunday for anyone that came into their store and bought ice cream that a certain percentage would go to this family. They also had a place for donations for this family. Before the daughter died she told her parents that if she died and saw that Jesus was truly real she would ask Him to send a rainbow at her funeral. The day of her funeral, there were no clouds in the sky and it was very sunny but suddenly a rainbow appeared out of nowhere. After the funeral this family was given a check from the neighborhood store for $6041.28. The amount for the funeral was $6040.28. It did something to everyone. Here is the utube event of the rainbow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-l9DJ4rt80

[Anonymous]

bridget_night wrote:

I have learned more about prayer and how to pray from the people in the Nazerene church and my Gay/Christian forum this past year than I have in a long time. They pray in such detail and with such heart and soul. It feel so powerful because they pray like they know God is listening to them.

Thanks for sharing bridget. What do you think is different from your Mormon experience? I would have thought you were describing my mormon experience above. While some prayers are rhetorical, I find most mormons completely feel that God is listening, and they pour their souls out. (I taught YM for a while…I wouldn’t say that describes the Teacher’s Quorum…but the adults…for the most part, yes.)

[Anonymous]

Hi Heber, My experience in the lds church (sacrament meetings, RS, SS) prayers were often someone rattling off a generic pray and saying as fast as they can, “in the name of JC, amen). Very few prayed with uniqueness and heart and soul. Only converts seemed more sincere in their prayers. In the Nazerene church I attend, the whole congregration sometimes gets up and surrounds a person who is being prayed for, like we are all hugging that person while someone prays over them with such love. Not that long ago in one of our bible study womens group, a young lesbian girl mentioned she did not feel like living anymore. Spontaenously, the women said, “Let’s pray for her right now.” Everyone surrounded this young 28 year old girl and a beautiful detailed prayer was said over her. It touched this young girl so much that it changed her spirit to want to live. So often I got the feeling in the lds church that you had to sign all the forms, and dot the ‘i’s’ and ‘t’s before you could give someone a blessing. I love the spontenaity of out pouring of love when it is needed on the spot.

[Anonymous]

bridget_night wrote:

Spontaenously, the women said, “Let’s pray for her right now.” Everyone surrounded this young 28 year old girl and a beautiful detailed prayer was said over her. It touched this young girl so much that it changed her spirit to want to live.

I love that example of the outpouring of love. I think that is what is really needed for some people, and I think that is the best kind of acts of service…spontaneous service. Great example.

bridget_night wrote:

So often I got the feeling in the lds church that you had to sign all the forms, and dot the ‘i’s’ and ‘t’s before you could give someone a blessing. I love the spontenaity of out pouring of love when it is needed on the spot.

I think that can be the feeling sometimes in church, a little too much order sometimes, and not enough spirit, maybe?

[Anonymous]

While considering the posts under this and the more recent “Prayer? Is there a point in it?,” I came across this article titled “Understanding the Science of Gratitude.”

Joel & Michelle Levery wrote:

The practice of gratitude antidotes two root sufferings that pervade the human experience. The first can be characterized as a feeling of “insufficiency” — not having enough or not being enough. This fundamental sense of dissatisfaction opens the way to the second kind of suffering — being incessantly busy trying to get more or be more in order to somehow fill this inner feeling of discontentment and lack. Living with an inner attitude of scarcity and poverty-consciousness also makes us prey to being manipulated by external forces that tell us that we will find happiness and satisfaction — finally — if we only acquire or consume this product or that, or once we go to this place or take some other action “out there.” Our preoccupation with seeking inner satisfaction from external sources keeps us on a never-ending merry-go-round of pursuits and distractions, always waiting for and expecting happiness to come to us from the outside. After the temporary pleasure or sense of accomplishment dissipates and wears off — as it always most certainly will — we find ourselves once again pursuing the next “fix.”

The miracle of the practice of gratitude is that it reverses this pattern of looking outwardly for satisfaction, and instantly puts us in touch with all the many gifts and blessings already present in our life. We shift from spinning in perpetual motion on the wheel of seeking happiness from the outside-in to generating happiness from the inside-out. This practice is easy to do and can be done anywhere and any time. The main thing is just to begin to weave this practice more and more often, and more and more regularly, into your life.

Both ancient teachings and modern medical research agree that one of the quickest, most direct routes to restoring harmony and balance in our lives is to foster gratitude and appreciation. The moment you shift from a mindstate of negativity or judgment to one of appreciation, there are immediate effects at many levels of your being: Brain function becomes more balanced, harmonized, and supple; your heart begins to pump in a much more coherent and harmonious rhythm; and biochemical changes trigger a host of healthful responses throughout your body. Especially in difficult times, remembering to return to gratitude is a radical life-affirming act that builds your capacity for resilience.

Not only is an attitude of gratitude good for your spirit and your mental and physical health, it’s even good for your grades! Recent research studies have shown that students who keep “gratitude journals” and write in them regularly, at least once a week, start doing better in school. One family we know has started a “family gratitude journal” that they leave out in the kitchen. As acts of kindness, beauty, blessings, or people they appreciate come to mind, they write them down. Reading and sharing these together has become a family practice that enhances their collective sense of well-being and connectedness. A wise octogenarian friend of ours found that this practice is a perfect sleep aid for her to do during the night when she wakes up and has trouble falling back to sleep. She starts to think appreciatively of each of her children and many grand children one by one, blessing them and sending them gratitude prayers, and as she’s told us, “I never make it through the whole list before I’m peacefully asleep again!”

This says much of what I would like to. I understand that this is not a scholarly article and the “Recent research studies” go without citation, but the positive effects of gratitude are consistent with my experience. Therefore, I have a testimony of gratitude and the expression of gratitude in and outside of prayer.

[Author]

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