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I currently don’t believe the church to be true however I do attend church and believe in the values. I’m very much culturally Mormon. You guys have help me a lot in the past with my transition and my new dating life.
So I’m doing the online dating via lds dating sites. Obviously I’ve got some challenges where I stand.
So how I normally do it chat via text and a phone call. When I notice potentially things go somewhere I drop the big one. I tell them I no longer believe but I tell them I’m very much Mormon cultural and with my values. I don’t want to lead them on or be dishonest where I stand with the church. Every single one leaves after that. Except one girl.
She told me she dated outside the church and I was encouraged in hearing about it. I told her my views. I told her how dating outside the church is hard because there is a lot of women who don’t have Mormon values and lds women reject me every time and she was very good about listening and understanding. She was honest and said she didn’t know how she felt about it but she understood where I was coming from. We both agreed we were friends at the moment so it’s not a big deal.
Mind you, it takes a lot of work to talk about where I stand. I haven’t come out publicly to anybody. Not even to my family.
I talk to her again and somehow randomly she mention how she mention to a friend about where I stand. Her friend said “Why is he even on a LDS dating website?” Then she replied “I don’t know”. I was really disappointed she said that because I thought I explained it to her. She noticed I was taken back by it and said “I’m sorry, I know why you are doing it.” There was an awkward pause but then I changed the subject.
Next phone call I ask her why she said that to her friend. She could tell I was disappointed. She said “ok, I understand what you said but I don’t understand it. I think it isn’t fair for a lot of women and you need to put it on your profile.I thank her for her honesty and told her that should everyone put what date and time they look at porn? I told her that not everyone has the exact same belief in the church, why should I advertise it when everybody else doesn’t have to?” We both talk a bit and there was a mutual understanding but respectful disagreement.
So my question to you guys is, is she right? Is that what I should put on my profile? Am I wrong? Am I being dishonest?
My 2 cents – I don’t think you should post it on your profile. 1. It’s personal – posting it on your profile will make it harder to control who gets the information. I think it would be hard on your family to find out about your FC if someone else saw your profile that stated it and told them.
2. Someone might bypass you whom in other circumstances would have gotten to know you and the situation.
I am not sure if I have anything to add on what to put / not put on your profile. I am old enough that I never dealt with that at all. I do wonder if there are any “hints” you could give that would at least be a signal to others that are also have your same beliefs. Maybe a picture with you in a tapir tshirt? I don’t know. Most TBM’s might not catch it and you still will have to level with them, but it might just make someone that is more in the same frame of mind swipe the right way (or is it left?
:think: ) I guess that is a new meaning to “choose the right”But I do commend you and think you are right to let others know where you are at once you start talking with them.
I’m a big believer in being open and honest, and letting “the consequence follow”. At the same time, there is only so much “information” you can put up on your dating profile; with incomplete information, people will make inaccurate assumptions. I think it is perfectly fair and honest to wait and share, until the girls have a little more context. What if everyone was as honest as that girl expected you do be? -“Whenever I get close to someone, I tend to shut them out of my life. My father left my mother for another woman when I was little, and I am scared of getting too emotionally attached, for fear they’ll disappoint me.”
-“Sociological pressures have caused me to develop several complex eating disorders.”
-“My mother was very manipulative and psychologically abusive. No matter how hard I try, I’ve never felt good enough.”
-“I have a strong sexual attraction towards my cousin, and fantasize about sleeping with them, though I’d never actually do it. “
-“Sometimes I fantasize about killing my family, though I’d never acutally do it.”
-“I’ve said the words ‘I love you’ to a dozen different people. I’ve never actually meant it.”
-“I’ve said the words ‘I love you’ to a dozen different people. I’ve meant it every time.”
In the end, it sounds like you have more in common with most mormons, than you do with non-members. That’s a good enough reason for anyone to stick with LDS dating sites. Put your best foot forward, and work through the details later.
If I were in your shoes I would consider a non-lds dating website or the old fashioned method of dating within your local community. One of the oddities with LDS dating is that we are laser focused on finding a spouse. I personally have been told by someone that they prayed about me and did not feel a confirmation from God …. AFTER THE SECOND DATE!
🙄 I believe that online LDS dating sites can exacerbate this trend even more. They are not there to get to know a wide variety of interesting people. They are there to find a spouse. period. (I did try an LDS dating website just to meet and get to know more people as friends and see where things may develop. One lady told me that she simply did not have time to make online friends…it was beeline to marriage or nothing. I appreciated her frankness.)This can make them feel like you are guilty of false advertising by being on a LDS potential marriage partner site but not really delivering on many of the LDS expectations of happily ever after.
(Assuming you are not shooting for a temple wedding) If I were you I might try a non-LDS dating website because there are plenty of people outside the church that have good values and could be understanding of the quirks of our religious tradition (especially if you yourself do not take them too seriously).
Or I would date within my local area. Face to face dating presents more of the “get to know you” format. It does not have the profile/resume component that some might feel was misrepresented.
Just my $0.02
This is a tricky one. You say you don’t believe, but I guess I would ask what that means exactly. Are you atheist, agnostic, or Christian? Something else? Or are you just a cafeteria Mormon of sorts, just not a TBM? Stating that you don’t believe is going to be a turn off to most women on these sites (whether that’s realistic or not – more on that in a minute). But they are missing that you are living like a Mormon, and you want Mormon values. Orthopraxy is often more important than orthodoxy, but if you start out saying you don’t believe, Mormons are conditioned to assume that means you don’t live it (e.g. don’t believe = excuse to commit sin). The reason I think these women are being totally unrealistic (as are so many Mormons) is that you can enter marriage thinking you are both lock step on belief and find out that no, you really aren’t. You can also change your views during the course of marriage. Belief isn’t the only thing that matters, and it’s often a bad heuristic for compatibility. You’d be better off marrying a committed atheist who respects you and lives your same values than a believing Mormon who treats you like crap and has a different parenting philosophy. There’s so much more to a person than religious belief.
How do you feel about temple marriage? Do you hold a TR? When you say you don’t believe, what are the borders of your disbelief?
I think you are doing it the right way, but I probably would change my explanation a bit: “I am an active but heterodox Mormon. I believe some things just like most members, and I believe some things differently.”
I think details are good for people who want to hear them, particularly if you aren’t interested in temple marriage. That one needs to be said upfront, if it applies, since it is a big part of why most people use LDS dating sites. Marrying someone and then sharing unique or different views obviously is wrong – and I would say letting a relationship develop into love without sharing also is wrong. Not sharing upfront, before even dating, seems fine to me.
Forgive me for using a business/sales analogy, but I have done a lot of that over the years. And I look at only partial disclosure of who you are as attracting “tire kickers”. These are people who are not serious about a dating relationship with you after you disclose your true church orientation. That’s why your ratio of dates to “interested parties” isn’t higher. I would update the profile indicating that you are not orthodox in your beliefs — so if they are looking for a traditional believer, then they would have to accept items such as (list items here as much as you are comfortable sharing). List some innocuous ones like “liberal interpretation of the Sabbath Day” or “not regular in personal prayer” or something like that, which you are comfortable with. But word it so the list isn’t meant to be inclusive.
This will weed out people who want a traditional believer, and will promote calls and texts from people who are in the same ball park that you are in. So rather, than 1 date per 6 “leads” you’ll get 4 dates per six leads.
There are a lot of people who have posted here over the years who feel the same way you do — want to date LDS but want someone in their gradient of belief/disbelief. So, those women are out there looking for people too — differentiate yourself from the competition and look at your unorthodoxy as an advantage to attract unorthodox people like you — that’s your target market, so write your personal “ad” that way.
My business analogy is not to besmirch the love and soft nature of dating, but it’s the way I would think if I was looking for a spouse in the early stages of a relationship. At least get people to contact you who are in the right ball park. You don’t want to attract people who will run like Hades after they learn who you really are. That’s not a good use of your time and emotional energy if you aren’t willing to go orthodox for the love of your eventual spouse…
I like the way SD framed it. Whether you use examples (like he mentioned) or not (like I phrased it) is completely up to you – but I do think you might be missing some possibilities for dates with other heterodox members by not mentioning anything and letting them think you are orthodox.
I just skimmed the replies. I started a similar thread a couple of months ago if you want to dig it up and look at the replies there. I believe you need to be more upfront in your profile. You might as well weed out the ones (as there are plenty) who want a strictly orthodox mormon. You don’t need to lay it all out there but some clue as to where you stand would be helpful. It will also spark conversations with those who align more closely with you.
They are out there. I’ve had conversations with at least a couple on the lds dating sites. I stated where I stood (to some degree). I’m sure many immediately dismissed me but you have to be willing to accept that. They are going to do it anyways when they find out so why waste their time and yours?
Thank you, everybody, for your feedback. I appreciate that some of you challenged my thoughts. I’m glad this community isn’t an echo chamber. I think my struggle with this is I feel like I am putting an “A” on myself walking around a 1600 Puritan town. (See The Scarlet Letter). If I do this, why can’t somebody who watched porn three months ago put it on their profile?
I’m also worried my family will find out. I’ve seen a lot of women who I know personally, and hopefully, the gossip won’t reach them until I am ready.
BUTI decided just to do it and see what happens. Make it a social experiment. If things get a bit overwhelming, I can pull back. I put on the bottom of my profile “Heterodox Mormon. If you want to know more ask! : ) “
I know it’s going to be rough. I’ve always bumped into those women who are militant about people who have a different perspective, but I can just choose to walk away from them. I mean it’s online dating! Just block them.
I wasn’t doing anything wrong, but at the same time, I need be emotionally honest about the situation. You guys are right. 80% of the women want their checklist, and it would be easier for both parties if I just let them know before hand. It stings to see somebody you match up with the block you right away, but if anything this should help my emotional plate get bigger and grow some tougher skin.
If my family finds out, then it’s ok. It’s forcing a situation that I would happen anyway. I’m 99% sure my family won’t disowned me, but I 99% sure that our relationship will change. Hopefully for the better.
Life isn’t fair. My whole faith crisis was completely shitty and painful. But I will play with the cards I was dealt with. I’m taking 100% responsibility for my faith crisis and my heterodox beliefs. I think this will make me a better person by being open about to others and hopefully, it’s a reminder to some that they are not alone.
I think you made the right choice. I will also say, don’t discount other dating sites. The LDS ones are generally filled with more orthodox mormons which makes sense. If you go to other sites you’ll find mormons (some, not all) who are more open-minded and willing to date people with differing beliefs. Also there are a lot of good people out there with good morals and values who aren’t mormon, don’t limit yourself. I stepped away from it all while for awhile but I don’t think I’ll be going back to the LDS sites. You’re going to be drawing from a pretty small pool if you stick to only LDS sites. Just what I’ve seen in my experience.
I’ve done non LDS sites and I haven’t found that to be true sadly. Also being in Colorado there isn’t really heterodox Mormons here because there isn’t a lot of Mormons here in the first place. I’m trying to stay open to it but my results are always falling flat. I get it would depend on where you live. I’m in AZ which is like 2nd Utah. Good luck. mczee wrote:
Life isn’t fair. My whole faith crisis was completely shitty and painful. But I will play with the cards I was dealt with. I’m taking 100% responsibility for my faith crisis and my heterodox beliefs. I think this will make me a better person by being open about to others and hopefully, it’s a reminder to some that they are not alone.
It is a hard thing to have to go through. There will be a lot of tough times and uncomfortable experiences ahead (telling your TBM parents SUUUCCCKKSSS, even if they do still love you. Telling my TBM in-laws was somehow worse). But in the end, I’d rather be where I am in my faith, then back with my TBM testimony. I honestly feel like the hymn “Amazing Grace”; “I once was blind, but now I see.” I’ve never felt more deeply happy, or more at peace with God, myself, and the world around me.
Blessings on your journey.
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