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I’m just wondering if anyone here has experience with how long a bishop would make you pay tithing again before getting a temple recommend. Is there a standard length of time? What kind of variation have people experienced? As far as I am aware there is nothing in the handbook about this, so it’s going to be a matter of leadership roulette. In my own mind if I paid what I consider to be a full tithe on one paycheck or for one month or whatever (with the intent to continue doing so, of course), then I am a full tithe payer. There is no such thing as “catching up” on tithing, repentance doesn’t work that way. I agree with DJ. DH and I didn’t pay tithing for a while once, and then decided to pay it again. The bishop told us to start there and go forward. He gave us recommends with no problem. In our ward it is 3 months. Not sure if it comes from the stake or not. There isn’t back pay…3 months from visiting with the Bishop. Whatever the Bishop says, which is good and/or bad, depending on the individual situation. I understand those who impose a proving time period, but I hope I would take an individual approach if I ever was in a position to make that call. I certainly do NOT believe AT ALL in having to pay on previous income.
It probably should be noted here, too, that the question is “Are you a full tithe payer?” I once recall my bishop saying that whenever he asks that question whether it is in a TR interview or in tithing settlement that he does not look at the tithing statement at all (and in fact doesn’t have one in a TR interview), but that he accepts the answer given because it is a matter between the individual and God. He was making a bigger point in that the interview is an opportunity to evaluate one’s own standing in relationship to God. He did actually say that he didn’t care if you lied to him because in reality you were only lying to yourself and God (and you can’t lie to God). I’m sure that not all bishops share that perspective, but I do appreciate that this one does and talks about it. Been working through this same thing in my mind! I’ve decided that one payment (like DJ said, with the intent to continue), that’s enough. Now I’m trying to work out the “intent to continue” part. I’m struggling to do this in the right spirit- in a spirit of sacrifice and gratitude rather than just paying the price of admission. Gah! Never thought I’d feel this way!!! Tithing used to be a no-brainer for me! :crazy: Let me throw this out there- should we feel obligated to disclose that we haven’t been paying?
The TR questions are structured in a format where yes/no answers will suffice. I recommend answering yes/no/ or earnestly trying.
My own bishop mentioned that sometimes people try to pay tithing for a brief period to go to a wedding/sealing or such and that it may not work out as planned. The bishop may make you prove your sincerity or something else may go wrong. Better to get the tithing question settled long before such events.
Since my kids are 8 and 6 this seemed a little premature. I also didn’t appreciate that he seemed to be using attendance at a family milestone event as a carrot for compliance. But no biggie. He didn’t press.
Many moons ago, I attended a Ward as a non-tithe payer. The people were excellent at execution, though, and the quality of the lessons, the quality of the programs, and the quality of the people ignited this desire in me to become a full tithe payer and TR-holder. I paid my tithing one week, and then two weeks layer my Bishop called me in and said “there is something I would like you to do,but you need that temple recommend”. I told him the only thing that was keeping me from holding a TR was tithing, and I started paying it again two weeks ago. He looked really surprised, and then had me called into the Bishopric. This was in April of the year. He gave me a Temple Recommend a few weeks later.
The interesting part of this, was the end of the year tithing settlement. He asked me if the amount I paid on my slip represented 10%. I said “Yes, from the time I started paying it this year, it is a full 10%”. I guess he didn’t like that answer, so he asked again “But does it represent 10%?”. I said, yes, from the time I started paying it. it was like he didn’t know where to go with the conversation at this point. His eyes looked like he was tryhing to multiply 14362345 X 9685747 in his head.
He looked uncomfortable, dropped the issue, and never asked for my TR. I guess reason took over — I had started paying it, was active, was serving. I had arrived again.
I felt that the person who starts paying tithing, and gets into full activity should start paying from the time they make the commitment to do it. A bit more than your question asked for, but that was my experience.
I am really torn about starting to pay tithing again. I have reasons to do it. I also have reasons not to do it—I believe in self-sufficiency, and my family is barely getting along financially. And honestly, it’s really, REALLY tough to see that much money flowing out of my account again. Tougher than I thought it would be. Even if we didn’t need to save up money for the birth of our baby in December, buying an 8-seater minivan to fit our new family size, finally fixing the holes in our ceiling from the plumbing repair we had to make last year, and more—paying tithing will seriously set back our long term financial goal to follow the church’s advice to get out of debt and finally start saving for retirement. I don’t want this to be a budget discussion, but I just wanted to give a brief idea of how paying tithing will impact my family. Quote:Daeriun
Paying tithing will seriously set back our long term financial goal to follow the church’s advice to get out of debt
NOONE CAN COMPLETE ALL the commandments: attend 3 hours of church, do your calling for another 5-20 hours, do your home teaching, do missionary work, go to the temple, do volunteer work in the community, take an hour for daily scripture study, prayer and meditation, etc. Few can pay a full tithing (however that is defined), pay a liberal fast offering, support a couple of missionaries, donate significantly to worthwhile causes in the community, region, nation and world.
Quote:Mosiah 4:27 And see that all these things are done in wisdom and order; for it is not requisite that a man should run faster than he has strength. And again, it is expedient that he should be diligent, that thereby he might win the prize; therefore, all things must be done in order.
To the question of how long you must pay tithing before you can get a temple recommend: It has been many years ago, but after being AWOL from the church for 17 years & not paying tithing, I started talking to my bishop about my Faith Crisis. We had 3 sessions before I became engaged to a wonderful woman who, at the time was a temple worker. She told me she would marry me anywhere I chose, but asked me to ask the bishop what it would take to get a recommend for a temple wedding. At that time I was unemployed, but all he asked for was a commitment for me to pay going forward. (I was moving out of state because my bride had a job that wouldn’t transfer). So in this case the bishop made the determination, and specifically instructed me to answer the Stake Pres’s questions with strictly, a “Yes, No, or Earnestly Trying). He was an attorney who didn’t appreciate nuances, I was told.
Daeruin wrote:I am really torn about starting to pay tithing again. I have reasons to do it. I also have reasons not to do it—I believe in self-sufficiency, and my family is barely getting along financially. And honestly, it’s really, REALLY tough to see that much money flowing out of my account again. Tougher than I thought it would be. Even if we didn’t need to save up money for the birth of our baby in December, buying an 8-seater minivan to fit our new family size, finally fixing the holes in our ceiling from the plumbing repair we had to make last year, and more—paying tithing will seriously set back our long term financial goal to follow the church’s advice to get out of debt and finally start saving for retirement. I don’t want this to be a budget discussion, but I just wanted to give a brief idea of how paying tithing will impact my family.
I get what you’re saying and understand. It’s going to come down to what you feel comfortable saying is a full tithe in order to get what you want (the TR). Some people are comfortable with paying tithing after expenses.
What DJ said. Figure out how you can define it and retain a clear conscience, even if that ends up being different than other people. dash1730 wrote:NOONE CAN COMPLETE ALL the commandments: attend 3 hours of church, do your calling for another 5-20 hours, do your home teaching, do missionary work, go to the temple, do volunteer work in the community, take an hour for daily scripture study, prayer and meditation, etc. Few can pay a full tithing (however that is defined), pay a liberal fast offering, support a couple of missionaries, donate significantly to worthwhile causes in the community, region, nation and world.
Quote:Mosiah 4:27 And see that all these things are done in wisdom and order; for it is not requisite that a man should run faster than he has strength. And again, it is expedient that he should be diligent, that thereby he might win the prize; therefore, all things must be done in order.
I agree completely. Unfortunately, if one of the commandments you don’t complete is tithing, there are major consequences.I appreciate all the replies—I knew everyone here would be sympathetic to my financial situation. I have done a lot of research on tithing and figured out how I’m going to define it and what I’m going to pay. Alas, it’s still a hefty blow in my situation. Too bad my past self couldn’t have seen into the future and taken some of that career advice I got more seriously.
If I ever pay again, it will be on surplus. To me, paying as a percent of gross or net represents inconsistent application of the principle of self-reliance. In my opinion, It’s inconsistent for the church to constantly preach self-reliance but then throw out the principle when it conflicts with collecting money for its own use. Quicken, which we use to keep track of expenses, allows you to flag certain expenses as “taxrelated”. I think I will use this flag to mark certain categories as tithing related. AT the end of the year I can run a financial statement that shows our net gain after expenses related to self-reliance (food, shelter, automobile, medical expenses, school-related expenses, business expenses, and yes, any donations I make to outside organizations etcetera). The net income/surplus at that point will be the amount on which I pay the 10%.
I’ll also pay it directly to Salt Lake City to keep the local leaders from questioning the number. I would feel good about this approach.
My only concern is that I don’t think the church needs it. Without financial transparency, I have to make my own judgments about whether the church really needs it. But in subtracting donations made to outside organizations that are charitable, those donations cover my 10%.
That my my own conscience is in control…
And by the way, I don’t really enjoy going to the temple, so if the Bishop denies a TR based on tithing I wouldn’t care too much.
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